| Gorton and Denton By-election 19:20 - Feb 15 with 8043 views | gtsb1966 |
Greens odds on to win with Reform 2nd and Labour 3rd. Surely that would be the end of Starmer if that happened. One can only hope. I cant see some members of the party waiting for the annihilation in the May elections.
https://www.oddschecker.com/po |  | | |  |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:03 - Feb 16 with 672 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:02 - Feb 15 by vapour_trail |
Major was highly skilled.
Portillo had lots of support in the party and also lots of people who really don’t like him. Major had none of the latter and saw him off comfortably.
And he subsequently achieved something in Northern Ireland that nobody else had got near. Never voted for him but comfortably the best PM of my lifetime. |
Major deserves great credit for his role in the Northern Ireland peace process, but he started it (on the British Government side) and Mo Mowlam completed the job.
Blair and Clinton posed for the photos, of course, but Irish Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, US Senator George Mitchell (who is named in the Epstein files but with no proven record of wrongdoing) and UK Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Mo Mowlam were the key negotiators with Adams, McGuinness, Paisley and Robinson.
And General De Chastelain worked out the technicalities of the Decommissioning Process.
Gordon Brown's response to the Foot and Mouth crisis and the Global Financial Meltdown has to give him a shout as best Prime Minister of the last of 40 years. |  | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:21 - Feb 16 with 638 views | Herbivore |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 08:43 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
Starmer is significantly more dishonest than Johnson. It's as simple as that.
Johnson went because the press became embarrassed by him after orchestrating a concerted campaign to get him in. He went over cake which was chosen because it allowed them to direct all the ire towards Johnson individually whilst leaving the Tory party alone in order to allow it to limp on. Starmer amongst many things is going because you had an individual at the very centre of government leaking market sensitive information to Epstein and acting as a lobbyist for him and the international banking sector during a worldwide financial crisis putting the UK at risk. Do you realise how serious that is?
And the 'poor Starmer was simply a bit naive to appoint Mandelson' line simply reveals the naivety of anyone using it. It's exceptionally important that people realise that Mandelson appointed Starmer, not the other way around! [Post edited 16 Feb 8:44]
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You're quite a long way down a rabbit hole at this point and parroting the same "he went over cake" line being used by right wing critics of Labour. The problem with it is that it's not true, he ultimately went because his own party had enough of him and the final straw wasn't the Covid breaches but the Chris Pincher scandal and his handling of it. Also, while I don't disagree that Starmer has been dishonest, particularly in painting himself as a social democrat when running for leader, the notion that he's more dishonest than Boris Johnson, a man who can't open his mouth without a lie slipping out, is for the birds. |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:23 - Feb 16 with 628 views | Herbivore |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:48 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
In what way is it a step back in the right direction?
We're getting Reform precisely because of this government! |
The rise of Reform is not solely, or even primarily, at the doorstep of Labour. The collapse of support for the Tories is where much of Reform's support has come from (there's plenty of good analysis of the numbers on this issue). Labour have failed to halt their momentum and haven't offered anything that different to win hearts and minds but to pretend that it's all Labour's fault that Reform are polling well is, like several of your views, for the birds. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:24 - Feb 16 with 625 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:21 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
You're quite a long way down a rabbit hole at this point and parroting the same "he went over cake" line being used by right wing critics of Labour. The problem with it is that it's not true, he ultimately went because his own party had enough of him and the final straw wasn't the Covid breaches but the Chris Pincher scandal and his handling of it. Also, while I don't disagree that Starmer has been dishonest, particularly in painting himself as a social democrat when running for leader, the notion that he's more dishonest than Boris Johnson, a man who can't open his mouth without a lie slipping out, is for the birds. |
If you added up the lies each has told, Starmer would be some way ahead of Johnson. |  | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:24 - Feb 16 with 621 views | Herbivore |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:24 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
If you added up the lies each has told, Starmer would be some way ahead of Johnson. |
I'm hearing cuckoos right about now. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:26 - Feb 16 with 619 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:23 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
The rise of Reform is not solely, or even primarily, at the doorstep of Labour. The collapse of support for the Tories is where much of Reform's support has come from (there's plenty of good analysis of the numbers on this issue). Labour have failed to halt their momentum and haven't offered anything that different to win hearts and minds but to pretend that it's all Labour's fault that Reform are polling well is, like several of your views, for the birds. |
'not even primarily at the doorstep of Labour'
They have literally legitimised Reform through their approach. | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:28 - Feb 16 with 615 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:24 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
I'm hearing cuckoos right about now. |
Your starter is Starmer's leadership pledges.
How many did he tell the truth on?
None.
Is that acceptable or healthy in a democracy?
Boris did at least tell the truth about the political project he was fronting! | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:32 - Feb 16 with 601 views | Herbivore |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:28 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
Your starter is Starmer's leadership pledges.
How many did he tell the truth on?
None.
Is that acceptable or healthy in a democracy?
Boris did at least tell the truth about the political project he was fronting! |
That last sentence is utter nonsense. And the rest is a different argument entirely. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:37 - Feb 16 with 590 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:32 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
That last sentence is utter nonsense. And the rest is a different argument entirely. |
Believe it or not, Boris did have a political project. It was mostly nonsense and he was thrown over the line by the press, but there was some sembakxne of a political stance.
What is Starmerism? | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:37 - Feb 16 with 584 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:32 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
That last sentence is utter nonsense. And the rest is a different argument entirely. |
And how is the rest an entirely different argument?
Do you think calculated deceit doesn't count as lies then? | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:48 - Feb 16 with 573 views | itfcjoe |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:37 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
Believe it or not, Boris did have a political project. It was mostly nonsense and he was thrown over the line by the press, but there was some sembakxne of a political stance.
What is Starmerism? |
Johnson campaigned in a GE with a Get Brexit Done message, with an 'Oven Ready Brexit Deal', the whole campaign was based on a huge lie as it didn't exist. |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:50 - Feb 16 with 565 views | vapour_trail |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:28 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
Your starter is Starmer's leadership pledges.
How many did he tell the truth on?
None.
Is that acceptable or healthy in a democracy?
Boris did at least tell the truth about the political project he was fronting! |
Look who’s supporting your argument.
That should tell you you’re fcked. |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:54 - Feb 16 with 553 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:50 - Feb 16 by vapour_trail |
Look who’s supporting your argument.
That should tell you you’re fcked. |
Is that the best you can do as a rebuttal? Revealing if so! | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:56 - Feb 16 with 547 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:48 - Feb 16 by itfcjoe |
Johnson campaigned in a GE with a Get Brexit Done message, with an 'Oven Ready Brexit Deal', the whole campaign was based on a huge lie as it didn't exist. |
That may well be true, but the pro Brexit position was at least a tangible one.
The Labour right's dishonesty and malfeasance dwarfs the Tories even under Johnson. It's as simple as that. [Post edited 16 Feb 11:01]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:56 - Feb 16 with 547 views | vapour_trail |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:54 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
Is that the best you can do as a rebuttal? Revealing if so! |
No, but I can’t be arsed with a back and forth. If you think Starmer has less integrity than Johnson, that’s fine, but neither of us is going to convince the other to change minds on this one I think. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:57 - Feb 16 with 542 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:56 - Feb 16 by vapour_trail |
No, but I can’t be arsed with a back and forth. If you think Starmer has less integrity than Johnson, that’s fine, but neither of us is going to convince the other to change minds on this one I think. |
Fair enough! 🤝 [Post edited 16 Feb 11:01]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 11:00 - Feb 16 with 524 views | itfcjoe |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:56 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
That may well be true, but the pro Brexit position was at least a tangible one.
The Labour right's dishonesty and malfeasance dwarfs the Tories even under Johnson. It's as simple as that. [Post edited 16 Feb 11:01]
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If you say so, I'd take of the tinfoil hat though and try not to fit everything into this world view you have because you have now decided on it because any good and fair points you are making are totally lost in the clear OTT exaggerations and dishonesty on display | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 11:05 - Feb 16 with 501 views | Herbivore |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:37 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
Believe it or not, Boris did have a political project. It was mostly nonsense and he was thrown over the line by the press, but there was some sembakxne of a political stance.
What is Starmerism? |
Boris didn't have a political project. The man was entirely self-serving and his principles changed depending on what was most likely to benefit him. Lest we forget him writing a piece in favour of remain as well as leave before deciding which to go with in order to further his own career. If you removed ambition and self-interest from Boris you'd be left with a vacuum. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 11:11 - Feb 16 with 475 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 11:00 - Feb 16 by itfcjoe |
If you say so, I'd take of the tinfoil hat though and try not to fit everything into this world view you have because you have now decided on it because any good and fair points you are making are totally lost in the clear OTT exaggerations and dishonesty on display |
There is no exaggeration or tinfoil. Simply fact.
We have to move beyond the lazy and inane political analysis which revolves around personalities and football team type views ('Boris was a chancer but Starmer is a grown up and forensic' and 'Tories are terrible but Labour are at least better') and actually look at stuff that is happening to institutions and structures.
In Labour Together and the Starmer project you have a profoundly anti democratic and authoritarian government. | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 11:15 - Feb 16 with 455 views | bartyg |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:52 - Feb 15 by redrickstuhaart |
Yes- stop the innuendo. You are helping Farage. |
Given latest polling numbers, is it not the labour right who are helping farage? The Green party is resurgent whilst labour gets left in the dust. |  | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 11:15 - Feb 16 with 450 views | Pinewoodblue |
Irrespective of anyone’s views on Starmer & Johnson it would be a painful time for Labour if Greens win.
Would mean Labour supporters voting against Labour rather than abstaining. |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 11:53 - Feb 16 with 385 views | Herbivore |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 11:11 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
There is no exaggeration or tinfoil. Simply fact.
We have to move beyond the lazy and inane political analysis which revolves around personalities and football team type views ('Boris was a chancer but Starmer is a grown up and forensic' and 'Tories are terrible but Labour are at least better') and actually look at stuff that is happening to institutions and structures.
In Labour Together and the Starmer project you have a profoundly anti democratic and authoritarian government. |
It's not simply fact though is it, given you spat out the line about Johnson going over cake, which is patently not true. Your posting is in fact mainly opinion, some of it valid as it goes, some of it batshit, and some somewhere in between. But you are not a pure fact merchant, mate, so don't try and play that card.
Labour are bad, Starmer lacks principles. It's possible to make those arguments without taking the absolutist and extreme narrative that you are pushing on the matter. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 12:07 - Feb 16 with 357 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 11:53 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
It's not simply fact though is it, given you spat out the line about Johnson going over cake, which is patently not true. Your posting is in fact mainly opinion, some of it valid as it goes, some of it batshit, and some somewhere in between. But you are not a pure fact merchant, mate, so don't try and play that card.
Labour are bad, Starmer lacks principles. It's possible to make those arguments without taking the absolutist and extreme narrative that you are pushing on the matter. |
It is fact.
You don't think Partygate was integral to his downfall? A downfall that only occurred because the press decided to notice things it hadn't been convenient for them to notice before.
What have I said that is 'batshit'? What have I said that is extreme?
You've got Labour Together paying for the smearing of journalists and sharing that false information with GCHQ. It's unprecedented stuff. | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 12:10 - Feb 16 with 333 views | Herbivore |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 12:07 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
It is fact.
You don't think Partygate was integral to his downfall? A downfall that only occurred because the press decided to notice things it hadn't been convenient for them to notice before.
What have I said that is 'batshit'? What have I said that is extreme?
You've got Labour Together paying for the smearing of journalists and sharing that false information with GCHQ. It's unprecedented stuff. |
It's clear that your grasp on facts is somewhere in the Boris Johnson ballpark. [Post edited 16 Feb 12:14]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 12:35 - Feb 16 with 274 views | eireblue |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 10:24 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
If you added up the lies each has told, Starmer would be some way ahead of Johnson. |
Boris Johnson was sacked from The Times in 1987 for fabricating a quote in an article.
Starmer had just started as a Barrister.
Have fun counting back… |  | | |
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