| The magic of the Cup.... 09:14 - Feb 16 with 2519 views | itfcjoe |
Noted in a newsletter received this morning that across the 14 ties that happened (one game tonight, one game postponed) there has been 183 team changes - i.e. each team making 6.5 changes to their starting XI from the previous game.
Our first priority for Friday's games was minutes for certain players, and totally confirmed by the pre planned sub of Kipre for O'Shea at half time.
We elected to do what we felt was best for the entirety of the rest of the season; I can appreciate fans frustrations of those who went but it should have come as no surprise at all - it was effectively a mid season friendly [Post edited 16 Feb 9:14]
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 09:23 - Feb 16 with 1937 views | Funge |
Yeah, I get it too - it's still pretty wack though.
I've a Bradford mate; they went to Wembley a few years ago off the back of a nuts League Cup run, including beating Villa at Valley Parade. They got dicked 5-0 by Swansea at Wembley, but, by all accounts, was a brilliant cup run and day out. They also beat Chelsea 4-1 at Stamford Bridge in the FA Cup a couple years later - again, absurdly good day out, as I understand it.
Also recently spoke to a Palace fan who said that the day out at Wembley last year was the greatest day of his life (although was rather less forthcoming about this season's trip to Macclesfield...).
I absolutely understand that promotion is the priority this year, but also acknowledge that *if* we go up, next season is going to be very similar to last season; the giants turning up here and scarcely noticing when they win - Arsenal hardly celebrated any of their 4 goals last year at PR.... joke clubs like Bournemouth and Fulham viewing our presence as an inconvenience.....
My point? Modern football is pretty crap - groundbreaking stuff, I know. |  | | |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 09:30 - Feb 16 with 1894 views | ElderGrizzly |
Agree, no surprise at all and stated as much as soon as the line-up was announced.
I guess the only criticism is no matter who we put in the team currently, we are struggling for intensity and being clinical from whoever occupies that No.9 position.
And with more physical and direct running teams like Wrexham, we continue to struggle.
But 10 changes, very much told you where priorities lie (and I agree) |  | | |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 09:33 - Feb 16 with 1871 views | tractorboy1978 |
I don't think you can complain about the line up - it's not like we put a team of kids out. It was a strong side and Baggott aside, it was all players that have/will play plenty of league games for us this season. Bigger concern for me was how that strong side still showed lots of the same issues we've seen away from home this season. We need to be better this Saturday. I hope we are but I wouldn't hang my hat on it. [Post edited 16 Feb 9:34]
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 09:34 - Feb 16 with 1867 views | homer_123 |
I'm not even sure why anyone would be surprised. Stepping back for a moment.
Gamechanger (and our other investors - the clue is in the name), need a return on their investment. They are not going to get that with a Cup run - Prem is the 'only' place where they start to see returns.
It's a reality of our ownership and situation - you can absolutely see why we do what we do with regard to Cup matches. No one should be surprised. Sure we can be disappointed in the result and even the performance but within the wider picture, I'm afraid the FA Cup, League Cup have no significance anymore (sadly), Prem and Europe - that is it. |  |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 09:35 - Feb 16 with 1859 views | m14_blue |
I don't think anyone that went was particularly frustrated with the line up, or the result. The totally lacklustre performance was a concern though, particularly when we've seen similar from our first choice XI in away games this season too.
It was really reminiscent of Blackburn (twice) and Preston, we have the propensity to throw in some absolutely shocking performances out of the blue.
Hopefully put it right on Saturday. | | | |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 09:36 - Feb 16 with 1853 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
Yep. Plus its not like the old days where 10 changes meant we were playing 18 year olds and guys with no senior minutes. I remember the cup game at Palace where it was Gerken and then 10 teenagers (who gave a pretty good account of themselves iirc.
On Saturday we had a team with a lot of big money signings in it, experienced pros and then some expensive young players who were capable of winning that game. They didn't turn up, shame, but it is what it is. |  |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 09:50 - Feb 16 with 1760 views | unstableblue |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 09:33 - Feb 16 by tractorboy1978 |
I don't think you can complain about the line up - it's not like we put a team of kids out. It was a strong side and Baggott aside, it was all players that have/will play plenty of league games for us this season. Bigger concern for me was how that strong side still showed lots of the same issues we've seen away from home this season. We need to be better this Saturday. I hope we are but I wouldn't hang my hat on it. [Post edited 16 Feb 9:34]
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I agree with Joe in part that the game was effectively a mid season friendly.
But also agree with you that Town have a strong squad, and those that came in should have gotten closer to a Wrexham team that had also made changes. Although there defence was unchanged which showed.
I still think McKenna will be disappointed in the performances from Hirst, Egeli, Johnson etc.
We really do need Hirst beginning to find some form for the run in.
But anyway we move on. [Post edited 16 Feb 9:58]
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:01 - Feb 16 with 1700 views | _CliveBaker_ |
Typical approach is system first, then personnel to execute it. Friday was personnel first, then how we can fashion them into the system. I don't disagree with it, we wrapped up Leif, Furlong and Matusiwa, Kipre and O'Shea only 45 each, Clarke and Mehmeti 20. Important minutes for Hirst, Egeli, McAteer, Neil, Cajuste, Greaves, Johnson.
Ultimately it was approached solely to benefit the league campaign, not to compromise it. Its very very difficult to justify anything but when you consider the importance of promotion not just in the near term but probably mid too. Overlay that with the likelihood of actually winning the Cup, which frankly is nigh on impossible with the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City still in.
Disappointing for sure, but in this case completely understandable, particularly with the gruelling calendar and where we are in the league. If we were 10 points clear at the top or sat in 15th I think there would be much more of an argument for having a go, but we're not. Getting to Wembley is a big thing in the club though, not one that will be spoken about publicly but one I've heard from numerous people. |  | | |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:18 - Feb 16 with 1627 views | BseaBlue |
I have no issues with that personally and to be fair to KMAC, the rotation has worked well this season in terms of managing the squad and injuries.
My main concern is that I expected better from the team we put out. With the exception of Baggot, we had more than enough quality to achieve a result, but whimpered away after the first 20 minutes.
Clearly the number 9 issue remains and despite spending nearly £40 million quid on our right hand side, we are not producing there at all. Egeli looks like he has joined Hirst in the 'bereft of confidence' club. |  | | |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:27 - Feb 16 with 1594 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Some people prefer the hypothetical idea that 10 changes is good for the promotion campaign.
Some people like the FA Cup and would love to attempt a cup run alongside the promotion campaign.
There is no right or wrong, just personal preference.
We know that the club has not given the FA Cup any importance for 15 or so years. [Post edited 16 Feb 10:38]
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:30 - Feb 16 with 1562 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 09:23 - Feb 16 by Funge |
Yeah, I get it too - it's still pretty wack though.
I've a Bradford mate; they went to Wembley a few years ago off the back of a nuts League Cup run, including beating Villa at Valley Parade. They got dicked 5-0 by Swansea at Wembley, but, by all accounts, was a brilliant cup run and day out. They also beat Chelsea 4-1 at Stamford Bridge in the FA Cup a couple years later - again, absurdly good day out, as I understand it.
Also recently spoke to a Palace fan who said that the day out at Wembley last year was the greatest day of his life (although was rather less forthcoming about this season's trip to Macclesfield...).
I absolutely understand that promotion is the priority this year, but also acknowledge that *if* we go up, next season is going to be very similar to last season; the giants turning up here and scarcely noticing when they win - Arsenal hardly celebrated any of their 4 goals last year at PR.... joke clubs like Bournemouth and Fulham viewing our presence as an inconvenience.....
My point? Modern football is pretty crap - groundbreaking stuff, I know. |
Its OK to want a cup run.
Agreed, the importance of the Premier League (which generally gives us incredibly miserable seasons) is all encompassing now, solely due to the money.
We are now owned in significant part by Private Equity (I'm not referring to the pension fund there), and they will pile even more pressure on KM to focus only on the league. | |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:34 - Feb 16 with 1541 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:27 - Feb 16 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Some people prefer the hypothetical idea that 10 changes is good for the promotion campaign.
Some people like the FA Cup and would love to attempt a cup run alongside the promotion campaign.
There is no right or wrong, just personal preference.
We know that the club has not given the FA Cup any importance for 15 or so years. [Post edited 16 Feb 10:38]
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Also both things can be true, i.e. agreeing with the level of changes but also thinking it was a really shit performance from the team we did put out. | | | |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:36 - Feb 16 with 1517 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:34 - Feb 16 by _CliveBaker_ |
Also both things can be true, i.e. agreeing with the level of changes but also thinking it was a really shit performance from the team we did put out. |
True.
Although Baggott in at left back was taking things a bit far. | |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:39 - Feb 16 with 1513 views | itfcjoe |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 09:23 - Feb 16 by Funge |
Yeah, I get it too - it's still pretty wack though.
I've a Bradford mate; they went to Wembley a few years ago off the back of a nuts League Cup run, including beating Villa at Valley Parade. They got dicked 5-0 by Swansea at Wembley, but, by all accounts, was a brilliant cup run and day out. They also beat Chelsea 4-1 at Stamford Bridge in the FA Cup a couple years later - again, absurdly good day out, as I understand it.
Also recently spoke to a Palace fan who said that the day out at Wembley last year was the greatest day of his life (although was rather less forthcoming about this season's trip to Macclesfield...).
I absolutely understand that promotion is the priority this year, but also acknowledge that *if* we go up, next season is going to be very similar to last season; the giants turning up here and scarcely noticing when they win - Arsenal hardly celebrated any of their 4 goals last year at PR.... joke clubs like Bournemouth and Fulham viewing our presence as an inconvenience.....
My point? Modern football is pretty crap - groundbreaking stuff, I know. |
I haven't got the time or willing to actually check, so I will just assume I'm right(!) - but I imagine Palace's amazing FA Cup win last night followed the pattern of - numerous changes in R3, R4 and R5, followed by at that stage their season being over as they floundered in mid table [no chance of Europe or relegation] so they then put their strongest team out for later rounds when the opportunity arose for them. | |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:44 - Feb 16 with 1491 views | RobTheMonk |
Other than the first 10 minutes we played with the tempo of me when I'm on the sofa and the wife calls me to come and do something in the kitchen.
We need to be playing at the tempo of me when my wife calls me from the bedroom. |  | | |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:45 - Feb 16 with 1489 views | itfcjoe |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:01 - Feb 16 by _CliveBaker_ |
Typical approach is system first, then personnel to execute it. Friday was personnel first, then how we can fashion them into the system. I don't disagree with it, we wrapped up Leif, Furlong and Matusiwa, Kipre and O'Shea only 45 each, Clarke and Mehmeti 20. Important minutes for Hirst, Egeli, McAteer, Neil, Cajuste, Greaves, Johnson.
Ultimately it was approached solely to benefit the league campaign, not to compromise it. Its very very difficult to justify anything but when you consider the importance of promotion not just in the near term but probably mid too. Overlay that with the likelihood of actually winning the Cup, which frankly is nigh on impossible with the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City still in.
Disappointing for sure, but in this case completely understandable, particularly with the gruelling calendar and where we are in the league. If we were 10 points clear at the top or sat in 15th I think there would be much more of an argument for having a go, but we're not. Getting to Wembley is a big thing in the club though, not one that will be spoken about publicly but one I've heard from numerous people. |
Yep, when we saw Baggott at LB and then the re planned sub it was clear that it was decided who was getting the minutes and working around that.
I don't think the performance was particularly lacklustre, just had 2 major issues - George Hirst is totally out of form in the 9 to the point where his on ball ability is now a hindrance to us; and the 3 behind the striker were effectively our number 6, 7 and 8* for the roles and 2 were playing in unfamiliar positions.
So going forwards you've alomst got the reserves rather than the subs around a badly out of form Hirst
*Clarke, Philogene, Nunez, Mehmoet and Burns are all ahead in pecking order | |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:46 - Feb 16 with 1477 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:39 - Feb 16 by itfcjoe |
I haven't got the time or willing to actually check, so I will just assume I'm right(!) - but I imagine Palace's amazing FA Cup win last night followed the pattern of - numerous changes in R3, R4 and R5, followed by at that stage their season being over as they floundered in mid table [no chance of Europe or relegation] so they then put their strongest team out for later rounds when the opportunity arose for them. |
Its OK to not want to make 10 changes (yes, we knew there would be at least 4-5), and to also want to get promoted.
Different people have different attitudes to perceived risk and reward.
Its OK to disagree. | |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 11:13 - Feb 16 with 1407 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:45 - Feb 16 by itfcjoe |
Yep, when we saw Baggott at LB and then the re planned sub it was clear that it was decided who was getting the minutes and working around that.
I don't think the performance was particularly lacklustre, just had 2 major issues - George Hirst is totally out of form in the 9 to the point where his on ball ability is now a hindrance to us; and the 3 behind the striker were effectively our number 6, 7 and 8* for the roles and 2 were playing in unfamiliar positions.
So going forwards you've alomst got the reserves rather than the subs around a badly out of form Hirst
*Clarke, Philogene, Nunez, Mehmoet and Burns are all ahead in pecking order |
That's true, but we still had £30m of signing and Akpom behind arguably our first choice #9. I thought we were awful tbh, really pedestrian, horribly slow in our build up, very predictable and far too easy to defend against. 2 shots on target, I thought it was a really lacklustre performance without any real threat for the most part.
I'm fine with the selection and I'll lose no sleep over the outcome, but I also don't think it was a very good performance at all. | | | |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 11:20 - Feb 16 with 1388 views | unstableblue |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:45 - Feb 16 by itfcjoe |
Yep, when we saw Baggott at LB and then the re planned sub it was clear that it was decided who was getting the minutes and working around that.
I don't think the performance was particularly lacklustre, just had 2 major issues - George Hirst is totally out of form in the 9 to the point where his on ball ability is now a hindrance to us; and the 3 behind the striker were effectively our number 6, 7 and 8* for the roles and 2 were playing in unfamiliar positions.
So going forwards you've alomst got the reserves rather than the subs around a badly out of form Hirst
*Clarke, Philogene, Nunez, Mehmoet and Burns are all ahead in pecking order |
Keiran Dyer was saying on the coverage that our system is very reliant on a strong left back who get forward, combining with with the left attacking mid.
And we had Baggot and Akpom. System out of window.
I don’t actually think the performance was that bad, it is just - as I keep saying - the fan base this season are all over the place. And not fully invested.
I do think that Wrexhams stand in forwards looked more coherent and effective especially first half, and it wasn’t just direct they passed and moved it well. Whereas never really found a rhythm or plan.
I do have a concern on Burns. We need him fit, we need his attributes. Whilst McAteer is improving, he’s not as effective, and he feels the pressure under the PR boo boys. | |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 11:21 - Feb 16 with 1372 views | vapour_trail |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 10:39 - Feb 16 by itfcjoe |
I haven't got the time or willing to actually check, so I will just assume I'm right(!) - but I imagine Palace's amazing FA Cup win last night followed the pattern of - numerous changes in R3, R4 and R5, followed by at that stage their season being over as they floundered in mid table [no chance of Europe or relegation] so they then put their strongest team out for later rounds when the opportunity arose for them. |
You assume incorrectly, Joe.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo |  |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 11:33 - Feb 16 with 1309 views | itfcjoe |
Was 5 changes for this game and for the next league game, so wasn't like they played their strongest team each round so not quite wrong I'd say! | |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 11:37 - Feb 16 with 1277 views | vapour_trail |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 11:33 - Feb 16 by itfcjoe |
Was 5 changes for this game and for the next league game, so wasn't like they played their strongest team each round so not quite wrong I'd say! |
Fair play. I thought it looked like a Palace team, didn’t look at the games around it. | |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 11:47 - Feb 16 with 1195 views | Illinoisblue |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 11:20 - Feb 16 by unstableblue |
Keiran Dyer was saying on the coverage that our system is very reliant on a strong left back who get forward, combining with with the left attacking mid.
And we had Baggot and Akpom. System out of window.
I don’t actually think the performance was that bad, it is just - as I keep saying - the fan base this season are all over the place. And not fully invested.
I do think that Wrexhams stand in forwards looked more coherent and effective especially first half, and it wasn’t just direct they passed and moved it well. Whereas never really found a rhythm or plan.
I do have a concern on Burns. We need him fit, we need his attributes. Whilst McAteer is improving, he’s not as effective, and he feels the pressure under the PR boo boys. |
Wasn’t that bad a performance?? We must have given the ball away at least 20 times and never tested their keeper. I’d say that’s pretty bad, regardless of the intent of the night. |  |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 12:26 - Feb 16 with 1039 views | Dubtractor |
| The magic of the Cup.... on 11:47 - Feb 16 by Illinoisblue |
Wasn’t that bad a performance?? We must have given the ball away at least 20 times and never tested their keeper. I’d say that’s pretty bad, regardless of the intent of the night. |
I'm 100% calm about it, and some of the hand wringing on here about it being typical of our season was mental, but it was a pretty rotten performance and I think it is very fair to say that. |  |
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| The magic of the Cup.... on 12:37 - Feb 16 with 981 views | Guthrum |
We can turn it around and say it's not so bad that we made 10 changes, with some people in unusual positions, went away to a top-six team (who made fewer replacements) and only lost by a single goal, having had a couple of chances to at least take it to extra time.
Tho it was dismal standing there watching most of our attacks slow pretty much to a halt in the middle of the pitch and/or killed by a misplaced pass. |  |
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