| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... 18:09 - Apr 20 with 6071 views | Keno |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 18:17 - Apr 20 with 3005 views | redrickstuhaart |
The obvious answer would be because it was utterly blindingly obvious that someone would volunteer such obviously essential information. |  |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 18:27 - Apr 20 with 2937 views | bluelagos |
Watching GMB this morning, Susanah Reid, Ed Balls with Kevin MacGuire and Gillian Keegan - was clear that across the board, opinion was that Starmer has royally fcked up in appointing Mandleson.
Just doesn't feel that his position is remotely tenable when the trust has broken down. Whether he intentionally lied, I doubt. But it stinks of not wanting to know/check for fear of what it would show.
And for a PM to appoint someone to a position that gets access to sensitive info, before any security checks had even taken place - is beyond irresponsible.
I think it's just a question of how long he lasts - suspect he'll hang on to the May elections and after that his own MPS will be all out to bring him down.
Feels like the end days of Johnson premiership - inexusable behaviour meaning his own party (and public) have simply lost faith in him. |  |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 18:53 - Apr 20 with 2814 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 18:17 - Apr 20 by redrickstuhaart |
The obvious answer would be because it was utterly blindingly obvious that someone would volunteer such obviously essential information. |
I think it is reasonable to assume that if a security vetting is carried out, if someone fails it that should be actioned. It is therefore reasonable to assume that if you hear nothing they have passed the vetting.
It was a clear failure of the process. Should Starmer be accountable for that? I don't know myself. |  |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 18:54 - Apr 20 with 2809 views | NthQldITFC |
Dame Diane Abbott! |  |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 18:56 - Apr 20 with 2799 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 18:53 - Apr 20 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I think it is reasonable to assume that if a security vetting is carried out, if someone fails it that should be actioned. It is therefore reasonable to assume that if you hear nothing they have passed the vetting.
It was a clear failure of the process. Should Starmer be accountable for that? I don't know myself. |
I think much turns on what this Robins fellow says tomorrow. Who took the decision, where was the pressure to make it from etc etc. | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:09 - Apr 20 with 2740 views | DJR |
For me John McDonnell summed it up best.
"Many on the Labour Benches, at least, will appreciate my right hon. and learned Friend’s apology today, but many of us remain bewildered about why the appointment took place, despite the warnings that many of us gave him. Is not the reality this? When he sought to realise his ambition to become leader of the Labour party, with very little base within the party, he became dependent on McSweeney, Mandelson and Labour Together to organise and fund his election. When he became the Prime Minister, the reward for McSweeney was control of No. 10, and the reward for Mandelson was the highest diplomatic office. The unspoken message to civil servants was, “What Mandelson wants, Mandelson gets.”
This has damaged the party that I have been a member of for 50 years. I urge the Prime Minister to take steps to clear this toxic culture out of our party, and to take the first step by having an independent inquiry into Labour Together." |  | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:10 - Apr 20 with 2728 views | Unit2Blue |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 18:53 - Apr 20 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I think it is reasonable to assume that if a security vetting is carried out, if someone fails it that should be actioned. It is therefore reasonable to assume that if you hear nothing they have passed the vetting.
It was a clear failure of the process. Should Starmer be accountable for that? I don't know myself. |
He knew Mandleson had links to China, Russia.
Linked with Epstein and stayed in his house while Epstein was in jail.
Yet the former DPP did not ask if he passed vetting?
You must be burying your head in the sand. | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:12 - Apr 20 with 2707 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:09 - Apr 20 by DJR |
For me John McDonnell summed it up best.
"Many on the Labour Benches, at least, will appreciate my right hon. and learned Friend’s apology today, but many of us remain bewildered about why the appointment took place, despite the warnings that many of us gave him. Is not the reality this? When he sought to realise his ambition to become leader of the Labour party, with very little base within the party, he became dependent on McSweeney, Mandelson and Labour Together to organise and fund his election. When he became the Prime Minister, the reward for McSweeney was control of No. 10, and the reward for Mandelson was the highest diplomatic office. The unspoken message to civil servants was, “What Mandelson wants, Mandelson gets.”
This has damaged the party that I have been a member of for 50 years. I urge the Prime Minister to take steps to clear this toxic culture out of our party, and to take the first step by having an independent inquiry into Labour Together." |
Comments which may have substance, but which should be treated with great caution as obviously born of McDonnell's own agenda. | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:12 - Apr 20 with 2695 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:10 - Apr 20 by Unit2Blue |
He knew Mandleson had links to China, Russia.
Linked with Epstein and stayed in his house while Epstein was in jail.
Yet the former DPP did not ask if he passed vetting?
You must be burying your head in the sand. |
This highlighted in yellow from a 2024 document is damning
[Post edited 20 Apr 19:13]
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:14 - Apr 20 with 2693 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:10 - Apr 20 by Unit2Blue |
He knew Mandleson had links to China, Russia.
Linked with Epstein and stayed in his house while Epstein was in jail.
Yet the former DPP did not ask if he passed vetting?
You must be burying your head in the sand. |
It is surely so obvious that he would be told otherwise- it is not surprising to me at all that he did not specifically ask.
We need to know who made what decisions, and who decided not to volunteer the information to the pm, and why. | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:16 - Apr 20 with 2680 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:10 - Apr 20 by Unit2Blue |
He knew Mandleson had links to China, Russia.
Linked with Epstein and stayed in his house while Epstein was in jail.
Yet the former DPP did not ask if he passed vetting?
You must be burying your head in the sand. |
Fair enough. He didn't need the vetting then because he already knew he would fail it. Which makes him completely to blame. | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:29 - Apr 20 with 2619 views | Unit2Blue |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:14 - Apr 20 by redrickstuhaart |
It is surely so obvious that he would be told otherwise- it is not surprising to me at all that he did not specifically ask.
We need to know who made what decisions, and who decided not to volunteer the information to the pm, and why. |
ha ha
He knew all the above but did not ask, you really are clutching at straws | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:30 - Apr 20 with 2616 views | GlasgowBlue |
The Speaker has accepted Kemi Badenoch application for an emergency debate on Peter Mandelson under Standing Order 24.
It will take place after Olly Robbins has given evidence to the Foreign Affairs Committee so should be lively. | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:35 - Apr 20 with 2574 views | Ftnfwest |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 18:53 - Apr 20 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I think it is reasonable to assume that if a security vetting is carried out, if someone fails it that should be actioned. It is therefore reasonable to assume that if you hear nothing they have passed the vetting.
It was a clear failure of the process. Should Starmer be accountable for that? I don't know myself. |
The likelihood of what happened was reported back in September so for Downing Street to be totally unaware doesn’t seem credible. Unless they didn’t tell him either.
Wasn’t this latest fall guy only appointed in January anyway or I have I got that wrong? |  | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:56 - Apr 20 with 2494 views | DJR |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:12 - Apr 20 by redrickstuhaart |
Comments which may have substance, but which should be treated with great caution as obviously born of McDonnell's own agenda. |
As a member of the Labour Party for around 40 years until a year or so before the election, I am able to form my own view.
It happens to coincide with McDonnell's, so I thought it worth highlighting what he said. | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 20:04 - Apr 20 with 2437 views | DJR |
A few observations.
1. Throwing a civil servant under the bus, and bad-mouthing him, isn't a good look or good employment practice.
2. A number of former senior civil servants have spoken in favour of Olly Robbins.
3. Starmer didn't admit that he misled the House.
4. Those alongside and behind Starmer were stony-faced.
5. A lot of Labour MPs left the chamber during the proceedings which I thought was significant.
6. Were Starmer a minister or CEO, he would been long gone. [Post edited 20 Apr 20:07]
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 20:09 - Apr 20 with 2406 views | Guthrum |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 20:04 - Apr 20 by DJR |
A few observations.
1. Throwing a civil servant under the bus, and bad-mouthing him, isn't a good look or good employment practice.
2. A number of former senior civil servants have spoken in favour of Olly Robbins.
3. Starmer didn't admit that he misled the House.
4. Those alongside and behind Starmer were stony-faced.
5. A lot of Labour MPs left the chamber during the proceedings which I thought was significant.
6. Were Starmer a minister or CEO, he would been long gone. [Post edited 20 Apr 20:07]
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Starmer knows that the mechanicxs of a leadership challenge are much trickier in the Labour Party than, say, the Conservatives. It's not an easy option if he refuses to resign. |  |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 20:16 - Apr 20 with 2364 views | DJR |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 20:09 - Apr 20 by Guthrum |
Starmer knows that the mechanicxs of a leadership challenge are much trickier in the Labour Party than, say, the Conservatives. It's not an easy option if he refuses to resign. |
Added to that, there is no obvious successor.
It's all a bit Catch 22. [Post edited 20 Apr 20:17]
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 20:38 - Apr 20 with 2290 views | DJR |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 20:04 - Apr 20 by DJR |
A few observations.
1. Throwing a civil servant under the bus, and bad-mouthing him, isn't a good look or good employment practice.
2. A number of former senior civil servants have spoken in favour of Olly Robbins.
3. Starmer didn't admit that he misled the House.
4. Those alongside and behind Starmer were stony-faced.
5. A lot of Labour MPs left the chamber during the proceedings which I thought was significant.
6. Were Starmer a minister or CEO, he would been long gone. [Post edited 20 Apr 20:07]
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This (from the Guardian) obviously didn't help the mood on the Labour benches.
Most MPs arrived in Westminster on Monday with a sense of ennui rather than gunning for revolution. Even then, cack-handed pre-written questions handed out to MPs by whips almost accidentally lit the bonfire again.
In the emailed briefing, MPs were proffered useful quotes from the victims of Jeffrey Epstein which they could use in their questions in the Commons. One sample question quoted Rachel Benavidez on the importance of victims being heard, designed to turn the fire again on Mandelson’s conduct rather than the prime minister’s judgment.
The briefing enraged what was previously a sullen but resigned parliamentary Labour party (PLP). “I came in this morning prepared to hear him out and then they hand out this absolutely outrageous boll*cks,” one MP said. “I don’t think this is what contrition looks like.” Another called it “despicable”. | | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 20:41 - Apr 20 with 2264 views | jasondozzell |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:12 - Apr 20 by redrickstuhaart |
Comments which may have substance, but which should be treated with great caution as obviously born of McDonnell's own agenda. |
Top tip for anyone still confused about this whole affair.
Mandy appointed Starmer and not the other way around.
Will help to make things clearer once you realise that. |  | | |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 21:00 - Apr 20 with 2205 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:29 - Apr 20 by Unit2Blue |
ha ha
He knew all the above but did not ask, you really are clutching at straws |
I am being realistic. | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 21:43 - Apr 20 with 2015 views | Guthrum |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 20:38 - Apr 20 by DJR |
This (from the Guardian) obviously didn't help the mood on the Labour benches.
Most MPs arrived in Westminster on Monday with a sense of ennui rather than gunning for revolution. Even then, cack-handed pre-written questions handed out to MPs by whips almost accidentally lit the bonfire again.
In the emailed briefing, MPs were proffered useful quotes from the victims of Jeffrey Epstein which they could use in their questions in the Commons. One sample question quoted Rachel Benavidez on the importance of victims being heard, designed to turn the fire again on Mandelson’s conduct rather than the prime minister’s judgment.
The briefing enraged what was previously a sullen but resigned parliamentary Labour party (PLP). “I came in this morning prepared to hear him out and then they hand out this absolutely outrageous boll*cks,” one MP said. “I don’t think this is what contrition looks like.” Another called it “despicable”. |
cack-handed doesn't begin to sum it up. Throughout this government, they seem to been infested with exceedingly clumsy political operators. Is there nobody at the top with the gumption to say "Hang on, is this really a good idea?", or are they too engrossed in some amateur (maybe even AI-written) playbook? | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 21:47 - Apr 20 with 1977 views | bournemouthblue |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 18:27 - Apr 20 by bluelagos |
Watching GMB this morning, Susanah Reid, Ed Balls with Kevin MacGuire and Gillian Keegan - was clear that across the board, opinion was that Starmer has royally fcked up in appointing Mandleson.
Just doesn't feel that his position is remotely tenable when the trust has broken down. Whether he intentionally lied, I doubt. But it stinks of not wanting to know/check for fear of what it would show.
And for a PM to appoint someone to a position that gets access to sensitive info, before any security checks had even taken place - is beyond irresponsible.
I think it's just a question of how long he lasts - suspect he'll hang on to the May elections and after that his own MPS will be all out to bring him down.
Feels like the end days of Johnson premiership - inexusable behaviour meaning his own party (and public) have simply lost faith in him. |
In normal circumstances I'd agree but Boris had a similar disaster most weeks before it got to much
I appreciate Starmer was hired to stop all that and be much better, Labour haven't been as bad as the Tories who were truly dreadful but have definitely had problems as well, they've generally been more honourable and resigned, Starmer being the exception really [Post edited 20 Apr 21:53]
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 21:52 - Apr 20 with 1945 views | bournemouthblue |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 19:12 - Apr 20 by GlasgowBlue |
This highlighted in yellow from a 2024 document is damning
[Post edited 20 Apr 19:13]
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Are the Tories the right party to be bringing up Russia links when Boris literally did this and eventually ended up as PM?
Johnson met former KGB agent Alexander Lebedev in Italy in 2018 without officials present or security detail, shortly after the Salisbury poisonings.
Despite a warning from security services (MI6/GCHQ) that appointing Evgeny Lebedev to the House of Lords posed a national security risk, Johnson pushed through the appointment. | |
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| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 22:32 - Apr 20 with 1832 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Diane Abbott the voice of reason ... on 20:04 - Apr 20 by DJR |
A few observations.
1. Throwing a civil servant under the bus, and bad-mouthing him, isn't a good look or good employment practice.
2. A number of former senior civil servants have spoken in favour of Olly Robbins.
3. Starmer didn't admit that he misled the House.
4. Those alongside and behind Starmer were stony-faced.
5. A lot of Labour MPs left the chamber during the proceedings which I thought was significant.
6. Were Starmer a minister or CEO, he would been long gone. [Post edited 20 Apr 20:07]
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Unless he were CEO and Chairman of the local football club! | |
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