| Dara O'Shea 18:57 - Apr 23 with 2578 views | Vic |
Interesting to read the praise he's getting on many threads on here now.
First part of the season he was widely and routinely criticised for his low key captaincy style. Seems like we're catching on to what McKenna said at the time. [Post edited 23 Apr 18:57]
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| Dara O'Shea on 19:04 - Apr 23 with 2418 views | FrimleyBlue |
I love him as a player
Liked his us and our people line
But id still prefer a cm captain |  |
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| Dara O'Shea on 19:28 - Apr 23 with 2333 views | jasondozzell |
Half of our support doesn't understand football basically.
I expect the idiots shouting 'f off' to Dara and KM at the end at Wrexham will be the first to enjoy sounding off about promotion.
Same for the treatment of MacAteer, Philogene, Hirst etc etc.
O'Shea superb last night. |  | | |
| Dara O'Shea on 19:38 - Apr 23 with 2278 views | andyblue231 |
If we have a leader in CM who wants to shout and organise and inspire he’s free to do that. He doesn’t have to have an armband on to do it. DoS being captain doesn’t stop
Others from being leaders too. |  | | |
| Dara O'Shea on 19:40 - Apr 23 with 2272 views | BrianTablet |
To be fair, he wasn't in particularly good form the first half of the season.
I don't see how people can't accept that fans comment on how they see players perform.
No one wants a player to play poorly, but if they do, why not come out and say it? It's hardly a secret that Hirst, McAteer and others have played poorly for most of the season.
There's obviously a right way and a wrong way to comment, and getting nasty and personal is unacceptable, but I think voicing a negative opinion of a footballer based on your own eyes isn't a reflection of not being a fan. It's a reflection of being a human. |  |
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| Dara O'Shea on 19:46 - Apr 23 with 2209 views | jasondozzell |
| Dara O'Shea on 19:40 - Apr 23 by BrianTablet |
To be fair, he wasn't in particularly good form the first half of the season.
I don't see how people can't accept that fans comment on how they see players perform.
No one wants a player to play poorly, but if they do, why not come out and say it? It's hardly a secret that Hirst, McAteer and others have played poorly for most of the season.
There's obviously a right way and a wrong way to comment, and getting nasty and personal is unacceptable, but I think voicing a negative opinion of a footballer based on your own eyes isn't a reflection of not being a fan. It's a reflection of being a human. |
Nothing wrong with talking about players of course but that's too nuanced for the boo boys brigade.
Don't agree that O'Shea wasn't in good form in first half of the season. He's playing particularly well at the moment but he's been very solid all season.
Too many fair-weather fans who think if we concede a goal or miss a chance means players involved are rubbish. [Post edited 23 Apr 19:47]
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| Dara O'Shea on 19:49 - Apr 23 with 2186 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Dara O'Shea on 19:04 - Apr 23 by FrimleyBlue |
I love him as a player
Liked his us and our people line
But id still prefer a cm captain |
I think he's probably been our most consistent player this year and I still think he's getting better. His ball carrying and long passing are areas where he's made significant improvements this year. I wish he were a greater threat when we have corners - his radar needs recalibrating by about 12 inches.
I don't think he's a great captain though - not because of where he plays on the pitch - but because he lacks (for me at least) the right vocal presence. |  |
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| Dara O'Shea on 19:58 - Apr 23 with 2128 views | LeoMuff |
Can’t imagine there’s a better defender in the league, we would not be close to top 2 without him. |  |
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| Dara O'Shea on 22:28 - Apr 23 with 1777 views | Guthrum |
I think the "Us and our people" speech made quite a bit of difference to how his captaincy was perceived. Capturing that and putting it out was a clever piece of work by the club. |  |
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| Dara O'Shea on 22:31 - Apr 23 with 1748 views | Guthrum |
| Dara O'Shea on 19:28 - Apr 23 by jasondozzell |
Half of our support doesn't understand football basically.
I expect the idiots shouting 'f off' to Dara and KM at the end at Wrexham will be the first to enjoy sounding off about promotion.
Same for the treatment of MacAteer, Philogene, Hirst etc etc.
O'Shea superb last night. |
Altho in the Wrexham Cup game, it was noticeable how much better organised we became after O'Shea came on at HT. | |
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| Dara O'Shea on 22:37 - Apr 23 with 1731 views | Vic |
| Dara O'Shea on 19:40 - Apr 23 by BrianTablet |
To be fair, he wasn't in particularly good form the first half of the season.
I don't see how people can't accept that fans comment on how they see players perform.
No one wants a player to play poorly, but if they do, why not come out and say it? It's hardly a secret that Hirst, McAteer and others have played poorly for most of the season.
There's obviously a right way and a wrong way to comment, and getting nasty and personal is unacceptable, but I think voicing a negative opinion of a footballer based on your own eyes isn't a reflection of not being a fan. It's a reflection of being a human. |
nothing wrong in having an opinion. But when they think they know better than the manager who works with him and watches him every day in training then I think something is wrong. | |
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| Dara O'Shea on 22:48 - Apr 23 with 1697 views | Sharkey |
| Dara O'Shea on 22:37 - Apr 23 by Vic |
nothing wrong in having an opinion. But when they think they know better than the manager who works with him and watches him every day in training then I think something is wrong. |
Would you say that regardless of who the manager is? |  | | |
| Dara O'Shea on 22:50 - Apr 23 with 1682 views | Wallingford_Boy |
| Dara O'Shea on 19:28 - Apr 23 by jasondozzell |
Half of our support doesn't understand football basically.
I expect the idiots shouting 'f off' to Dara and KM at the end at Wrexham will be the first to enjoy sounding off about promotion.
Same for the treatment of MacAteer, Philogene, Hirst etc etc.
O'Shea superb last night. |
And those half are mainly on here it seems! |  |
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| Dara O'Shea on 22:53 - Apr 23 with 1678 views | Vic |
| Dara O'Shea on 22:48 - Apr 23 by Sharkey |
Would you say that regardless of who the manager is? |
Probably not! But McKenna has surely done enough to prove his judgment is pretty sound. To build 2 very successful teams in 5 yrs takes some doing. | |
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| Dara O'Shea on 22:55 - Apr 23 with 1665 views | ReusersTown |
| Dara O'Shea on 22:37 - Apr 23 by Vic |
nothing wrong in having an opinion. But when they think they know better than the manager who works with him and watches him every day in training then I think something is wrong. |
Not only that, a back to back promotion manager and the best in generations, who is also being courted by the biggest clubs around. | | | |
| Dara O'Shea on 07:58 - Apr 24 with 1374 views | slade1 |
O'Shea is my player of the season
Not just for his displays on the pitch but for his leadership as well. | | | |
| Dara O'Shea on 09:11 - Apr 24 with 1235 views | TheGentlemanViking |
He's definitely grown into the season, and the team have had to grow into his leadership style. He isn't Sam, but you can tell the players have the utmost respect for him and his leadership. It's irrelevant what we think of his style as fans, it's the players that matter and he is without question the leader of this team.
Not every captain is exceptionally vocal, for every Van Dijk there's a Harry Kane or Odegaard, it's about how the team respond. (personally I don't get the arguments that he's not vocal enough, he's not exactly shy!) |  | | |
| Dara O'Shea on 09:27 - Apr 24 with 1174 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
It was a real coup keeping him in the summer. I don't think there's a better defender in the league on paper.
Norwich away was the best I have seen him this season. He defends the box so well. I'd like to add how well Greaves has been too. Greaves was another who has taken a lot of unfair stick. I really like Greaves and I'm glad he's playing over Kipre. The right foot and left foot balance is always my preference in a centre back partnership. |  |
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| Dara O'Shea on 09:35 - Apr 24 with 1160 views | Smoresy |
| Dara O'Shea on 19:38 - Apr 23 by andyblue231 |
If we have a leader in CM who wants to shout and organise and inspire he’s free to do that. He doesn’t have to have an armband on to do it. DoS being captain doesn’t stop
Others from being leaders too. |
Too right. Adams, Terry, Puyol, Khan, Maldini and Kompany off the top of the head, for teams who didn't suffer from the armband being closer to goal. | | | |
| Dara O'Shea on 10:13 - Apr 24 with 1091 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Dara O'Shea on 19:28 - Apr 23 by jasondozzell |
Half of our support doesn't understand football basically.
I expect the idiots shouting 'f off' to Dara and KM at the end at Wrexham will be the first to enjoy sounding off about promotion.
Same for the treatment of MacAteer, Philogene, Hirst etc etc.
O'Shea superb last night. |
He's probably the best defender in the division. His distribution has improved as the season has progressed, and he's probably my vote for POTS.
However, he does stand off too much for me, and did so again on Tuesday night. Part of that I think is an expectation that the GK does better with e.g. the opening goal at Charlton and essentially letting the player shoot from where he was perhaps shouldn't have led to a goal.
But overall he's been great and one I hope we retain whichever division we're in. | | | |
| Dara O'Shea on 11:47 - Apr 24 with 987 views | darkhorse28 |
| Dara O'Shea on 19:28 - Apr 23 by jasondozzell |
Half of our support doesn't understand football basically.
I expect the idiots shouting 'f off' to Dara and KM at the end at Wrexham will be the first to enjoy sounding off about promotion.
Same for the treatment of MacAteer, Philogene, Hirst etc etc.
O'Shea superb last night. |
Calling out 50% of OUR supporters isn’t clever. You should respect peoples views or agree to disagree.
I respect you have our best interests at heart, love the club and players, and 50% of fans that agree with you. You’re always positive, and that’s genuinely great. We need that as a support.
I don’t respect you trying to conflate us to our lowest league position in our history, going back three years, to winning against Northampton, or a 1-0 against Morecimbr as evidence of how good we are, just to protect your fragile ego.
That’s where we disagree.
I’d rather we measured our progress against Brentford, Brighton, Bournemouth, clubs who have won one trophy between them! Or at least the Milwall, Boro, Coventry and Wrexhams of this world, or the Burnley’s and other parachute supported clubs, actual metrics with substance for a club spending a QUARTER OF A BILLION on new players. Five years into a project.
Not even aspirational metrics. Just where a club with those resources should expect to be.
Not teams mostly now not even in the professional football league, at our lowest historical ebb, because you can’t process maybe ‘elite’ isn’t success in the EFL. It’s a whole new level entirely. It’s uncomfortable isn’t it .., suddenly playing Fleeteood feels safer for you, you might win that game!
So be careful about criticising people you don’t know, have never met, and likely won’t.
I agree on the hatred at games and reductive crap btw, I’d never condone that, it just doesn’t help, and we need support, but we do need scrutiny, debate. Discourse, agency, and accountability too.
THAT is how clubs grow. That’s how we learn, and develop. Not with dogma.
Not by saying but we once played Forest Green, so this is amazing, McKenna is better than Lambert so he’s elite, Ashton is better than O’Neill so also world class.
O’Shea is a great example. Playing great, developed as a leader, but he’s done that at this level before, and couldn’t step up before, twice at the level above, both those statements are true. He never warranted the hate. And doesn’t warrant saying he’s good enough for the level above either. He needs to prove that. I’m not sure he is. But we should support that journey and him. Playing for Ireland helps him so much. He’s developing (hopefully).
Tallest dwarfs aren’t tall, those aren’t the measures for us if we want success.
Do Brighton, Bornmouth, Brentford. Measure themselves against their recent times in the fourth division do you think? Measure their CEO’s against their worst? Their managers against the ones that failed the most??? Pretend players doing well in the EFL are world class? (That’s the step).
No. They have optics which are elite and measure against those.
That’s how they improve. That’s how they became ELITE. Not by pretending, but with honesty, integrity, devoid of blind emotion.
There are people you dismiss who forgot more about football in a millisecond that you might learn in a lifetime. There are always people who know more, and they aren’t always people who agree with you (or me).
Do you play EPL fantasy football? Post your position this or any season, the very best you ever did…, let’s see your football genius in the pantheon of true competition. That’s one measure of where you’re at as a self proclaimed ‘expert’. Let’s measure this genius of yours.
You won’t be number 1. So respect people who might be. It might be someone from that 50%. It almost certainly is.
Up the town. | | | |
| Dara O'Shea on 13:34 - Apr 24 with 877 views | stonojnr |
Some fans are fickle, shocker and some cant read the game properly
The more hilarious ones are those will now deny any such criticism existed just as they did with Matusiwa | | | |
| Dara O'Shea on 16:54 - Apr 24 with 719 views | cbower |
| Dara O'Shea on 19:40 - Apr 23 by BrianTablet |
To be fair, he wasn't in particularly good form the first half of the season.
I don't see how people can't accept that fans comment on how they see players perform.
No one wants a player to play poorly, but if they do, why not come out and say it? It's hardly a secret that Hirst, McAteer and others have played poorly for most of the season.
There's obviously a right way and a wrong way to comment, and getting nasty and personal is unacceptable, but I think voicing a negative opinion of a footballer based on your own eyes isn't a reflection of not being a fan. It's a reflection of being a human. |
^^^^^^^^^Great Post this. It's part of watching a game, critiquing performance. Avoid vitriol and call it as you see it. Doesn't mean you're not a fan. Have an uppie. [Post edited 24 Apr 16:55]
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| Dara O'Shea on 12:10 - Apr 26 with 482 views | Sharkey |
| Dara O'Shea on 22:53 - Apr 23 by Vic |
Probably not! But McKenna has surely done enough to prove his judgment is pretty sound. To build 2 very successful teams in 5 yrs takes some doing. |
Point taken, but on the other hand I think it's perfectly natural on the bus home from a game to say 'in my opinion, so-and-so should never be in the team ahead of so-and-so' , and it wouldn't be much of a conversation if the default retort is just 'the manager always knows best'. I mean we know we can only judge what by what we see on the pitch, that goes without saying. Surely the meat-and-drink of any football football forum is to hear what other people make of certain players. | | | |
| Dara O'Shea on 14:09 - Apr 26 with 356 views | DJR |
| Dara O'Shea on 19:04 - Apr 23 by FrimleyBlue |
I love him as a player
Liked his us and our people line
But id still prefer a cm captain |
This isn't meant as a criticism of Dara, who has been excellent, but I was wondering (given I don't watch it) if the sort of up-and-at-em central defender that he is is that common in the Premier League?
From recollection of last season, part of the problem we had was the ability of the opposition to move the ball so quickly that our defenders were often nowhere near the ball and chasing shadows.
Putting it another way is defending in the Championship a different ball game to defending in the Premier League?
Obviously he does have a lot of Premier League experience and I imagine he will still be first on the team sheet but I am inclined to think we need to upgrade the player alongside him, and maybe opt for a defender with a different sort of profile. [Post edited 26 Apr 14:17]
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| Dara O'Shea on 14:57 - Apr 26 with 269 views | tivo |
I will go against the general consensus here, and acknowledge I do so.
I think he is an awful player, and if we start next season in the Premiership, with him in the team and as captain, then we will get relegated.
He backs off constantly (yes sometimes you need to) but not all of the time. Players know he will never engage them so see it as an easy opportunity to gain 30/40 yards on us, and do.
Some people highlight 0 yellow cards all season a positive thing, but it's absolutely not. Late in many games there are chances to make tactical fouls, time waste and take pressure off us. He is generally not clever enough to do that.
Whilst I am all for our approach to playing out from the back he slows us down more than anyone else. He is not comfortable playing this approach (no matter how much he might try and show he is). His passing is average and so often he tries to do the old Woolfy 'come and close me down' but teams are not fussed about him having the ball so dont. This gives the opposition time to get all 11 behind the ball, face the right way we then all complain we cant break teams down.
Lastly, he is a 'loser', and it shows. I don't see him riling up the team when we go down, his head drops and I don't think he can; as a captain, take us up a notch when we need it. [Post edited 26 Apr 14:58]
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