| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently 16:56 - Jul 14 with 2902 views | Mullet |
Heard on the radio counter terrorism have briefed that it was targeted and politically motivated. There’s several reasons why this is bad, not least because it’s a murder.
A lot has been made of Farage using it for propaganda purposes, but so have reform and their cheerleaders. An almost ghoulish wave of conspiracy has been spread in the interim and there seems a tinderbox of people itching to use this as a way to legitimise Reforms racism and hatred.
There’s even criticism of the police force, counter terrorism and the media for not reporting what they did not know until now.
Likewise, the debate around the cost and need for close protection of all MPs when there are so many former PMs alive who now get it (Starmer will make it 11 apparently) means there isn’t enough resources to go around.
On the day we hear of £10b wastage from the former government, that Farage turned down an offer of government protection so he could justify the £5m bung it really does highlight how starkly the country has lurched downward in the past decade or so.
The fact we have foreign government paying people to target politicians and minority groups exposed earlier this year only makes this murder a sort of prize for different groups to fight over and put their stamp on.
However abhorrent AW was, that only cheapens her and her death further. |  |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:11 - Jul 15 with 571 views | lowhouseblue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:01 - Jul 15 by ElderGrizzly |
I do really fear, the continual stoking of this by Reform is going to lead to one of their more 'unstable' supporters going after one of those types you mention.
Farage's response to Jo Cox's murder for example was 'interesting'
It's going to get a lot more ugly before it gets better. [Post edited 15 Jul 11:04]
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we live in scary times and terrorism comes from all extremes. but if that did happen the political dimension would surely be central to any investigation from the start. were they to say we don't know the motive but there's nothing to suggest it's political they would be laughed at.
i do think that the police have made matters worse. in the circumstances their initial response is inexplicable other than as an inept attempt to manage public opinion. to most people, in less than 24 hours and while admitting no other motive had been suggested, it invites the basic distrust that comes from the question 'why on earth are they saying that?'
edit to reflect your edit: that was farage's reaction, it wasn't and shouldn't have been the police reaction which is what concerns me. [Post edited 15 Jul 11:17]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:16 - Jul 15 with 548 views | lowhouseblue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:59 - Jul 15 by bartyg |
Guarantee you loved when Mark Rowley was all over the press calling Polanski a weapon |
are you actually following the thread? i used polanski as an example of someone who suffered abuse and hate, just like widdecombe (in that case, a hatred you so kindly demonstrated). | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:17 - Jul 15 with 537 views | Benters |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:47 - Jul 15 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Farm crimes are notoriously difficult to detect. |
Cream then jam or jam then cream? |  |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:23 - Jul 15 with 487 views | The_Major |
There's been a lot of very stupid things said by very stupid people on all sides in the last few days. Including this.
Because the implication is that if this bloke was in full time employment, Harwood wouldn't have any quibble with it. |  | | |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:31 - Jul 15 with 456 views | soupytwist |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:49 - Jul 15 by lowhouseblue |
just as a thought experiment, if another politician was found murdered in similar circumstances - i'm going to say abbott or polanski or corbyn only because they are equivalently controversial, politically high profile, and the target of similar abuse and hatred - would you be surprised if within 24 hours the police sought to publicly dismiss any link to politics or terrorism without having established any other motive?
*again, i mention the names because they are comparable public controversy and hate figures and i find it inconceivable that any police force wouldn't start by assuming that might be relevant until some other motive was established. isn't their public profile a "reason to suspect a political motive"? |
I have tried in my response (here and beyond this place) to Widdecombe's death, to put politics aside and imagine my reaction if the victim was someone else, like one of the people you've named. This sort of thing is obviously wrong whoever is the victim.
Richard Tice has said that police should keep an open mind when considering motive rather than ruling things out that may then get ruled back in and that the government's independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, said he was "slightly surprised" the force had guided the public away from the idea of there being a potential political element in the first place. I want to believe that I, and others, would be able to resist that kind of jumping to conclusions were the victim someone whose views aligned more with mine.
On Friday Devon and Cornwall Police said that it wasn't being treated as a terrorist incident, having consulted with counter-terrorism police. On Sunday they said there was "nothing to suggest" the murder of Widdecombe was politically motivated.
Those things are not the same as what Tice and the other bloke are accusing the police of doing. Information that comes to light during the investigation could change both those views of the case.
It still hasn't been declared a terrorist incident, rather it's described as a targeted attack.
You're right about the Barham thing, there seems to be relatively little in the public domain about that at the moment, and that's probably how it should stay for now. I'm not seeing much from the lefty woke liberal brigade decrying right-wing terrorism at the moment, but maybe that's because I haven't gone looking for it. |  | | |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:33 - Jul 15 with 440 views | soupytwist |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:45 - Jul 15 by Benters |
If I may suggest if you can be bothered look at Devon and Cornwall Policing record it’s piss poor. |
I have and see that they're "rated as inadequate in the areas of safeguarding adults and children, and investigating crime."
Not sure how that's relevant to this case where they arrested someone, quickly eliminated him from their enquiries and then arrested someone else who seems to be a bit more of a likely suspect all in the space of four days.
Perhaps you could enlighten me on that. | | | |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:36 - Jul 15 with 414 views | lowhouseblue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:33 - Jul 15 by soupytwist |
I have and see that they're "rated as inadequate in the areas of safeguarding adults and children, and investigating crime."
Not sure how that's relevant to this case where they arrested someone, quickly eliminated him from their enquiries and then arrested someone else who seems to be a bit more of a likely suspect all in the space of four days.
Perhaps you could enlighten me on that. |
"inadequate in investigating crime" probably isn't the slogan to go with on the side of the patrol cars though. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:37 - Jul 15 with 394 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:47 - Jul 15 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Farm crimes are notoriously difficult to detect. |
It must be difficult ploughing through all the evidence |  |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:41 - Jul 15 with 379 views | lowhouseblue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:37 - Jul 15 by Swansea_Blue |
It must be difficult ploughing through all the evidence |
it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:43 - Jul 15 with 367 views | soupytwist |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:11 - Jul 15 by lowhouseblue |
we live in scary times and terrorism comes from all extremes. but if that did happen the political dimension would surely be central to any investigation from the start. were they to say we don't know the motive but there's nothing to suggest it's political they would be laughed at.
i do think that the police have made matters worse. in the circumstances their initial response is inexplicable other than as an inept attempt to manage public opinion. to most people, in less than 24 hours and while admitting no other motive had been suggested, it invites the basic distrust that comes from the question 'why on earth are they saying that?'
edit to reflect your edit: that was farage's reaction, it wasn't and shouldn't have been the police reaction which is what concerns me. [Post edited 15 Jul 11:17]
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They said on Sunday that there was nothing to suggest that there was a political motivation to the crime because they knew that people were either wondering or asking out loud whether there was.
And at that point, they'd found nothing to suggest there was. | | | |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:43 - Jul 15 with 365 views | Mullet |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:09 - Jul 15 by eireblue |
Lazy.
Why don’t you post the evidence that their record is poor compared to similar forces. |
Honestly feel like I’m shouting into the void, but engaging with these people on here just derails threads. I think one of them might be banned now fwiw. The automatic backup and abuse has disappeared. | |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:44 - Jul 15 with 358 views | leitrimblue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:47 - Jul 15 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Farm crimes are notoriously difficult to detect. |
If it's anything like north Co Leitrim most of um are probably insurance jobs.
There's virtually no crime in Co Leitrim but half of my farmer neighbors get expensive machinery 'stolen' every year..
Its literally something we all laugh about in the pub. |  | | |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:56 - Jul 15 with 301 views | lowhouseblue |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:43 - Jul 15 by soupytwist |
They said on Sunday that there was nothing to suggest that there was a political motivation to the crime because they knew that people were either wondering or asking out loud whether there was.
And at that point, they'd found nothing to suggest there was. |
wasn't her high and controversial political profile in itself - and in the absence of any other identified motive - something to at least suggest a political motive? thats 'suggest' as opposed to 'establish'.
if the chairman of bp was found in the exact same circumstances, would the police, after 24 hours and with no other motive suggested, say there is nothing to suggest a connection his public role? really? bit coincidental, no? isn't that something you would only say at the end of an investigation? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 12:21 - Jul 15 with 246 views | NthQldITFC |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 10:51 - Jul 15 by lowhouseblue |
it has the opposite effect. if people stop believing the police public order becomes harder to mange. |
We might be talking at cross purposes here - I'm referring to the ethnicity statement they have to make now, not to motivation. |  |
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| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 12:25 - Jul 15 with 230 views | NthQldITFC |
| Widdecombes murder was targeted apparently on 11:41 - Jul 15 by lowhouseblue |
it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. |
They have a lot of evidence to sift trough. | |
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