Forum | So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... by tonybied

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So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... 20:25 - Jul 14 with 2669 views

tonybied

to win a penalty nowadays?

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So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 10:04 - Jul 15 with 493 views

StokieBlue

So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 09:32 - Jul 15 by Kropotkin123
Kane didn't initiate the contact. Drawing comparison to Kane is a false equivalence.

I don't think Yamal initiated the contact, he went for the ball, won the ball and if the defender is aware and there isn't contact. It wasn't guaranteed from my memory but I'll need to watch it again.

It's interesting how different people can see the same incident completely differently, seems to be about a 50/50 split on this thread but for me, that's a pen.

SB

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So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 10:05 - Jul 15 with 502 views

PhilTWTD

If he'd cleared the ball, then no penalty. He missed it and kicked the player, who had charged it down, so obvious penalty.

Jack Taylor did. (n/t) on 10:10 - Jul 15 with 464 views

The_Flashing_Smile

Jack Taylor did. (n/t) on 20:34 - Jul 14 by Bloots

Must admit I was shocked when the ref gave it at Norwich, but delighted anyway.

But if that's a pen these days, then last night was a pen too. Bit unfortunate on the defender, but there we go.

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So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 10:11 - Jul 15 with 461 views

tonybied

So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 10:04 - Jul 15 by StokieBlue
I don't think Yamal initiated the contact, he went for the ball, won the ball and if the defender is aware and there isn't contact. It wasn't guaranteed from my memory but I'll need to watch it again. It's interesting how different people can see the same incident completely differently, seems to be about a 50/50 split on this thread but for me, that's a pen. SB

I'm not denying that in the laws of the game that this is most likely a penalty. It is just another version of hanging out a leg, feeling the contact, and going down. It's not sportsmanship in my eyes, and I just think it is a massive pile of dung!

[Post edited 15 Jul 10:28]

So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 10:26 - Jul 15 with 435 views

jayessess

Not really sure what else Lamine Yamal is supposed to do there? He challenges for the ball, gets there first, gets kicked. Was he supposed to not challenge for it?

Think the fundamental thing is that penalties are rubbish. They are the most boring kind of goal, the goal that requires the least skill or effort to get, they are usually disproportionate punishment for the offence committed. So when people are watching as neutrals they don't want them given, so we invent ever more complex ways in which stupid fouls should not be penalties - oh, he's gone down too easy, he initiated contact, he wasn't in control of the ball, that contact wasn't impactful, etc. etc. Kane's was a pen. Spence's was a pen. This was a pen. Referees already give a diminishing proportion of penalty box fouls as penalties. If the officiating worked the same inside the penalty area as outside, you'd give many many more.

Solution for me is that you make penalties the punishment for denying a clear goalscoring opportunity anywhere on the pitch and just officiate in the penalty area normally. Would have the double advantage of getting rid of another disproportionate punishment - the DOGSO red card.

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So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 11:09 - Jul 15 with 370 views

urbanpenguin

So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 10:03 - Jul 15 by tonybied
Indeed, Yamal had no intent of doing anything with the ball. He's only intent was to throw himself in front of the clearance to initiate contact. If the defender had managed to pull out of the challenge, the ball would've bounced off Yamal, he would've flopped on the turf, and the ball would've gone out of play. Yamal was not in control of the ball, so hadn't "won" it.

Well, that's not true because the ball he played went straight to the feet of the Spanish number 21. So, unorthodox as it may be, he passed the ball to a team mate and then was fouled in the process.

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So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 11:44 - Jul 15 with 329 views

mellowblue

So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 10:11 - Jul 15 by tonybied
I'm not denying that in the laws of the game that this is most likely a penalty. It is just another version of hanging out a leg, feeling the contact, and going down. It's not sportsmanship in my eyes, and I just think it is a massive pile of dung! [Post edited 15 Jul 10:28]

that's not just contact, that is a big wallop on the leg !!
Ref has to give it. Lamine gets the touch, okay he does not know much about it, but whether he has any control over the ball is not a factor in a pen decision. It comes off his upper arm but his arm is not moving towards the ball independently of his body and his arm is down by his side anyway. He is already anticipating contact and he is turning away bracing himself for that contact. Re the shirtsleeve rule. It is a misnoma as it is supposed to be the bottom of the armpit area, but in the heat and speed of the moment how is the ref supposed to accurately know where the bottom of the armpit is, it being hidden from view, hence why refs carteblanche use the sleeve of a short shirt as visual guidance. . It is a clear penalty.
If the ref had not given it, can you imagine the noise, accusations of French bias etc

So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 13:23 - Jul 15 with 293 views

redrickstuhaart

So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 11:44 - Jul 15 by mellowblue

If it had come off his arm like that down to the feet of a team mate who scored, it would be ruled out. Or should be.

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So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 13:45 - Jul 15 with 282 views

mellowblue

So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 13:23 - Jul 15 by redrickstuhaart
If it had come off his arm like that down to the feet of a team mate who scored, it would be ruled out. Or should be.

You are probably right, though it is daft if it is considered handball in one circumstance but not in another, just leaves them open to calls of inconsistency. But it is already the same for physical fouls. A foul awarded in the middle of the park often would not be given if it happened in the penalty area, they allow for a higher level of jeopardy in the pen area.

So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 14:37 - Jul 15 with 250 views

Kropotkin123

So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 10:04 - Jul 15 by StokieBlue
I don't think Yamal initiated the contact, he went for the ball, won the ball and if the defender is aware and there isn't contact. It wasn't guaranteed from my memory but I'll need to watch it again. It's interesting how different people can see the same incident completely differently, seems to be about a 50/50 split on this thread but for me, that's a pen. SB

Sure, it's your opinion (and many others) that he Yamal didn't initiate contract. It is mine (and many others) that he did. It remains comparable to Spence because the initiation is where there the question mark is (Eg, me and St Neots maybe holding different opinions regarding that and Spence).

Next to no one thinks Kane initiated the contact. The question mark is on whether kicking him in that situation is apart of the natural contact/collision part of the game. You give that, then you give the Mexico penalty he conceded. I personally wish both of them weren't penalties.

They remain a false equivalence though, regardless of your opinion on Yamal's, as we agree Digne kicked Yamal and if he didn't initiate it, it would be a penalty.

[Post edited 15 Jul 16:18]

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So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 14:40 - Jul 15 with 248 views

Kropotkin123

So you can just throw your body in front of someone clearing the ball... on 10:26 - Jul 15 by jayessess

I agree with the solution in principle, but the grey zone would be a nightmare. Way more issues than we have now. Obviously I would have loved it for England Vs Italy (Saka) though.

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