| End of an Era at Ipswich 20:09 - Jul 21 with 6372 views | ITFC_Essex |
Now, before I start, I want to make it clear that this isn’t a criticism of the club but rather sharing some of my sentimental feelings about the (needed!) change at the club and mourning what was. Ipswich is changing; the days of youth team players making up a chunk of the side and unknown gems from around the country are over, and we’re now into the international market.
I may be wrong, but I believe it was Jackie Milburn who started the youth system here at Ipswich with the mindset of developing our own local talent to help bring in good players when Ipswich at the time didn’t have the budget or the same draw as many of the fashionable clubs of that era. That was a big part of the culture of this club for a very long time, and I suspect most of our lifetime. Alongside that home-grown culture, we legitimately had a reputation (and success) developing some of the best talent from England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland, alongside recruiting players others had binned off or deemed not up to it and making them into successes. It’s something I have always been very proud of and one of the big successes this club has achieved throughout its history. The Ipswich way: good football, focusing on local and wider UK/Ire talent and giving them an opportunity they wouldn’t get elsewhere. That was our club, and at times, we excelled at doing it.
I guess in many ways, between Cook and McKenna we still had that; we recruited a lot of the British-based talent that others maybe didn’t utilize and turned into players that have won us three promotions. We saw the likes of Christian Walton, Harry Clarke, Luke Wolfenden, Cameron Burgess, Wes Burns, Leif Davis, Sam Morsy, Conor Chaplin, Nathan Broadhead and George Hirst play for us in the topflight in what was one of modern football's fairy tales and easily the best times we have had for many years.
It really has been such a big part of our DNA for so long; it’s who we have been, and it does feel strange to be moving away from that. I think we can be a bit sad that the world has changed, and our way has become a bit of a relic. It’s a DNA with deep roots, you had the likes of Ray Crawford and Billy Baxter, who were here under Sir Alf Ramsay, who were still here under Sir Bobby Robson, who played alongside Mick Mills, and Colin Viljoen, who played alongside John Wark, Russell Osman and George Burley, who themselves played alongside Jason Dozzell, Mick Stockwell, and Frank Yallop, who played alongside Richard Wright, James Scowcroft, Kieron Dyer who themselves would play alongside the likes of Tommy Smith and it just goes on. It was who we are, and it was, frankly, beautiful when the times were good.
Even in more modern times, we stormed the Premier League in 2000, and we knew we would, with players from our youth system, players we astutely signed largely from unfashionable clubs or were unwanted elsewhere. Sure, for several reasons it did not work out long-term, but that Ipswich side was one of our best, and over the years it was here was probably unlucky not to win more, such as a League Cup, because we did have the talent; we did play the football. Even after the fall, Sheepshanks had a vision to recruit the bulk of the players from our youth system. I believe we actually achieved that around 2004, fielding a side with Matt Richards, Richard Naylor, Tommy Miller, Ian Westlake, Darren Bent and Dean Bowditch in it.
However, after Marcus Evans came in, the youth side of the club was neglected, which has set us back decades, and that’s even with us still relying on a lot of our own youngsters even in recent years; and with that neglect, it’s amazing anyone came through it at all.
So, to sum up, while I appreciate this is the modern game and the way of things now, I do reflect on what we’ve lost. It is sad that we live in a world that is so ultra-capitalistic that the dream many working-class lads have/had of growing up and playing for their local team, a dream that we as a club have helped fulfil many times, is now just a piece of history.
Jason Dozzell scoring on his debut, in the top flight, at 16, while still at school.
We never knew we had it so good.
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 23:41 - Jul 21 with 1166 views | ITFC_Essex |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 23:07 - Jul 21 by Guthrum |
Altho picture a scenario where we finish 17th, then 12th ... then 8th, just outside the European places, after that establishing ourselves among the upper echelon, as Aston Villa have done.
I'm not sure that is so unrealistic, given the levels of investment and support from the ownership, plus their ambition and targets. The Cobbolds backed Ramsey and Robson, by the standards of the day, as did Sheepshanks with Burley. It's at an altogether higher level, but I see every sign the present ownership can and will do the same, if we push on. |
As great as everything is at the moment, I guess I think we need to continue to remember we were the club that produced top level talent and developed a lot of players who were unwanted elsewhere into quality top flight and international players.
I'd love a reality where we could have the best of both, in that if you are a young British player and you actually want to play, really want to play and develop this is the place you will get that chance. | |
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 23:54 - Jul 21 with 1127 views | grow_our_own |
Grow our own! |  | | |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 00:06 - Jul 22 with 1123 views | Guthrum |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 23:41 - Jul 21 by ITFC_Essex |
As great as everything is at the moment, I guess I think we need to continue to remember we were the club that produced top level talent and developed a lot of players who were unwanted elsewhere into quality top flight and international players.
I'd love a reality where we could have the best of both, in that if you are a young British player and you actually want to play, really want to play and develop this is the place you will get that chance. |
I think that can still be true, that Town can be a place to nurture young British talent in the future. We have those traditions within our DNA and still take pride in the "family club" title. Plus the commercial imperatives of the modern game do not erase that - bringing up players to either be part of our team or to transfer on is still, if done sensibly, more cost effective if there is time* to let the process happen.
But also talent from other places. Football is a more global business than it was even in the 1990s. After all, a number of our recent signings have been either within or only just beyond the Youth bracket. Hutchinson, Delap, Walle Egeli, Emersonn, Fatawu - plus we're still bringing in young players like Atherton specifically for development.
* Currently - and in several recent seasons - there has not been time. We have needed an oven-ready squad for new divisions and circumstances. Our rise, fall and rise again has outstripped steady development and marooned good Youth players who might have broken through in L1 or the Champ. If we can stabilise, that situation will change. |  |
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 00:08 - Jul 22 with 1113 views | armchaircritic59 |
It was indeed Jackie Milburn who started the youth system here. Didn't have the greatest time as manager, but we certainly owed him a debt of gratitude for the players that came through after him. Of course we all know we seriously took our eyes off that particular ball for decades. Now we are in the process of building things back up again. It will take a little time but the wheels are turning. I can foresee a future in say maybe 5-10 years time when we can combine the best of both worlds. Players from around the world and our products from the academy.
Whether we like it or not we now live in the football world of the 2020's not the 1980's or further back.. And I've gone through them all and further back than that by nearly two decades. Change is inevitable, you just have to adjust, and if you can keep at least a few of the principles you started with, that's a bonus. |  | | |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 02:11 - Jul 22 with 1068 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Embrace it and get with the times! It’s exciting.
If you want to be depressed, watch Blue Monday after losing to Northampton 3-0 which was what, only half a decade ago.
You can still talk about the old days down the pub, the club is being future proofed for generations. Need the new stands next once we are an established PL club. [Post edited 22 Jul 2:12]
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 05:39 - Jul 22 with 1014 views | greyhound |
It's not the same level as some in here but my son has been with Ipswich since age 7 in the EPDC, and briefly in the ATC. Even at that lower level it really builds there hopes and playing ability. But in the last year they have cut group sizes significantly twice, most recently 50% of all players were released as Ipswich look to improve quality towards the newly achieved cat 1 status.
The worry in a 9 year old that he won't get to play that session of football anymore was agonising as we waited for a report and a potential offer. It's something we had to manage really carefully and made me understand how significant these decisions are to young players. It also highlighted to me he was far more invested in what he gets from that session and player group than I realised. He was fortunate enough to make the cut this year, but after reading stories hear and our own experience I think it's important to position these opportunities as something to enjoy while it lasts as a simple addition to whatever else they may choose to spend free time doing! |  | | |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 05:54 - Jul 22 with 999 views | Benters |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 20:33 - Jul 21 by SitfcB |
You’re probably a few years too late with this thread. |
This. |  |
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 06:10 - Jul 22 with 985 views | Benters |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 02:11 - Jul 22 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Embrace it and get with the times! It’s exciting.
If you want to be depressed, watch Blue Monday after losing to Northampton 3-0 which was what, only half a decade ago.
You can still talk about the old days down the pub, the club is being future proofed for generations. Need the new stands next once we are an established PL club. [Post edited 22 Jul 2:12]
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It’s a funny old game isn’t it.
One set of fans want to play in the top league the other miss the old days.
Me I liked The Championship you could always get tickets 😂 | |
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 06:39 - Jul 22 with 964 views | PioneerBlue |
I like what you have written and this is not a rejection. However the investment weve made in A1 and access to PL2 is all about 10 years behind where we need it to be today to be presenting lads that have the chance in the fist xI. Before A1 status we were fighting with 2 hands behind our back. I dont see The Ipswich Way as dead but the club has to be tactical at times, if the academy isnt producing but we have money to invest and fast track the team to competitiveness thats what we do. Meanwhile the academy investment is running alongside, it has not been helped by the moving target coming from first team success. Take Humphries, he only needed to be good enough for L1 when we came through but suddenly he needed to be good enough for Championship and now PL. It must have been difficult to attract and produce the right talent quality for this. Also how we bring players through will have changed starting with where we attract them from, that is also a national potentially international pool being PL and A1 status. | |
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 07:12 - Jul 22 with 943 views | Bluebell |
Great post.
Sorry, didn’t mean to downvote. Fat fingers.  |  | | |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 07:35 - Jul 22 with 903 views | BlueBoots |
With all the discussion of the difficulties for young lads going through the academy system, plug for an excellent book written by one of our own...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Winni |  |
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 07:55 - Jul 22 with 869 views | Churchman |
Thank you for posting this. Thought provoking and interesting.
I didn’t think there is anything wrong with romanticising or remembering the past - the good and the bad. It actually helps us understand how and why we are where we are in addition to being fun and luckily for us, generating a lot of happy memories.
But the past should always be looked at in context. In the peak of my time following ITFC (the Robson years) the club had a uniqueness to it and along with the likes of Forest and Derby could compete with the bigger clubs of the time and in all bar Liverpool too often, beat them.
Shared gate receipts and how football was financed (largely through the gate) helped level the playing field but the real leveller was the skills of Scott Duncan, Alf, Milburn (for the Academy start up), McGarry and Robson, backed by the Cobbolds. From going into the Football League just before the war, the rise of ITFC is astonishing.
Then the game changed and one by one, the clubs that could compete fell away and bar the odd exceptional season (us 2001, Sunderland last year and Forest). Even a club as big as Leeds have had their struggles. Some clubs like Brentford and Brighton have defied the odds and found a way. So while the days I remember and loved are gone, it is possible to compete at the highest level and be the best the club can be.
That means competing in a world game. The World Cup brought that home to me. So many exceptional players from so many countries and few poor teams. Many of these players are in the Premier League and the top leagues in Europe. We have to compete in that market. Home grown players? Of course if we can’t find them and develop them. It’s what I’d like to see, but realistically many of our players will have to come from far and wide if we want to compete.
I found the Premier League sobering two seasons ago. I’d loved how our team played. Genuinely exciting and actually gave the club back its identity to an extent. I hoped minimal change and a good stab at it like 2000. Ok, the team got torn up to a large extent and not particularly expertly. No surprise given where the club was. But even so, few of the players that got us promotion were close to being competitive week in week out.
I remember seeing Fulham early in the season. We drew, but in the main their players were bigger, stronger and more skilful, all over the pitch. I loved watching Broadhead, but saw him in particular against Wolves at home and he wasn’t even close to what was required.
In conclusion, I can see what the club is trying to do on and off the field. It is light years from five years ago and the progress has been astonishing. Highs and lows few clubs get to experience after two decades of decline. We have a long way to go. There will be lots of changes, some that’ll work, some that won’t.
The only certainty in life is that nothing stands still. So we look to the future. But that doesn’t take anything away from the great times I’ve seen (1970s on) or the pitiful ones and let’s face it, there’s been a boatload of both. It’s what following sport and a team should be in my view. [Post edited 22 Jul 8:55]
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 08:46 - Jul 22 with 812 views | baxterbasics |
It's a conflict isn't it? I don't like seeing such a high turnover of players in a short space of time, regardless of their origins. You get attached to a particular (successful!) group, you accept one or two will be replaced now and then, but when there's a mass change it can feel alienating as a fan. You have to learn to love new players.
But the catch is with promotion you need to do it to have a shot of competing. That's the modern PL for you.
When we opened Vs Liverpool last time round, we still had 6 of our Lg 1 players in the lineup. Which was brilliant! Until it wasn't, and we eventually learned we didn't have enough to survive. As much as people bleated "but we've spent £200 million" or complained, ridiculously, "the heart's been ripped out of the squad" it just wasn't enough.
So what do we want? Retain past heroes a season too long and sink like a stone, or bring in the new blood and maybe have a chance? |  |
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 08:59 - Jul 22 with 796 views | mellowblue |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 20:27 - Jul 21 by BelsteadCav |
My son was with Ipswich 5/6 years ago when he was 13/14
Told he was too small ( 5ft 10)
Then the academy seemed to be flooded with Arsenal and Chelsea rejects who were all above 6ft
The chances of a local lad being in the side again will be very slim, If hes not over 6ft [Post edited 21 Jul 20:31]
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daft to make a judgement call before nature's growing period has ended. The amount of boys who suddenly shoot up when they are 14/15 is huge. | | | |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 09:23 - Jul 22 with 768 views | DJR |
Interesting to contrast Spain with England in terms of the impact on the national game.
Whilst those English players who make it into Premier League teams undoubtedly benefit from the higher level of skill and the like that foreign imports have created, what England lacks is a national coaching plan and set up as in Spain, and a top league in which it is possible for large numbers of home grown players to play according to that set up.
Interesting also to note the vast number of French-born players at the World Cup presumably because those players are able to thrive in the top league.
Putting it another way, the Premier League isn't set up to benefit the national game, just to make money. [Post edited 22 Jul 9:28]
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 09:25 - Jul 22 with 758 views | DJR |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 08:59 - Jul 22 by mellowblue |
daft to make a judgement call before nature's growing period has ended. The amount of boys who suddenly shoot up when they are 14/15 is huge. |
And don't forget, the best two players of all time (Maradona and Messi) were tiny. | | | |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 09:58 - Jul 22 with 720 views | _CliveBaker_ |
Just to offer a slightly different perspective on academies to some of the replies, they're also an incredible opportunity and experience for those within them, and nobody is recruited into an academy on the promise of graduating to the 1st team. Setbacks and disappointments are a part of life, and in the same way not everyone at school will go to Oxbridge, not everyone in an academy will reach a top level of football. Ultimately you have a choice, you either join or you don't, and I think there has to be a bit of personal / family responsibility to reposition the opportunity for what it is. My advice for any young players would be to see it as a journey and opportunity to be the best player you're capable of being, and to enjoy the experience, not as a means to an end destination. I'm sure its similar for RADA and suchlike, you might not be the next Samuel L Jackson, but you've got a great opportunity to be coached by the best in the business, go and make the most of it and enjoy the journey. Elite training has value beyond the end outcome.
I say this as someone who was in the Ipswich academy from 11 before being released at 16. Naturally I found that difficult to stomach, especially as it was only a few months after my mum passed away and such a formative stage of life. The club didn't owe me anything though, I wouldn't have wanted a sympathy contract for another year. I have amazing memories of those 5 years and got a footballing education that I wouldn't have had otherwise.
Of course clubs have a duty of care to youngsters, which by and large they're much better at now than was the case even 10 or 20 years ago. [Post edited 22 Jul 9:58]
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 10:26 - Jul 22 with 667 views | southnorfolkblue |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 20:47 - Jul 21 by BelsteadCav |
That’s sounds amazing, strange how life works out sometimes
I really hope he falls in love with it again as he was a very talented boy
It’s just a massive kick in the teeth for boys when you’re constantly told ( by coaches etc) how good you are, then just left by the wayside. Professional football academy’s are absolutely brutal. |
They are brutal. My lad was never remotely good enough which in many ways was a good thing because he could just play the game in the way that I’d personally want a 13 year old to play, but some of his teammates got into the Norwich City Academy structure and it became a completely different animal for them and their parents. None of them made the grade and those that I kept in contact with said that their kids lost all interest in playing,
It’s so sad | |
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 10:51 - Jul 22 with 633 views | ThatMuhrenCross |
I think just bide our time on this one.
You correctly pointed out that Marcus Evans neglected the academy, and we're still paying for that now. Gamechanger have ploughed huge investment into the academy, but it will take time for that work to bear fruit on a first team level. I'm convinced it will happen though.
I also think that with us changing leagues almost every season of late, it's been harder to phase in young players. I think that if we can become an established Premier League club, with less change in the off-season, we'll start to see players increasingly getting their chance. Where we're at now, we're so dependent on new players needing to make an impact, and a large proportion of the squad needing to be experienced.
Give it time. If we get off to a decent start in the Premier League this season, we may see one or two youngsters getting their first taste of first team football. Boniface and Mendel don't look too far off. |  |
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| End of an Era at Ipswich on 11:09 - Jul 22 with 607 views | Hermann_eats_puffin |
Yes I don’t disagree with the sentiment of this post because I also loved the Ipswich way of bringing through our own youth team players into the first team and seeing them thrive which in turn helped drive the first team forwards.
But rather than dwell on the end of eras I think that we just have to enjoy the journey that we’re currently on and look forwards in terms of how can Town adapt in order to succeed in the current era of football which is always changing.
Three times in my lifetime the club has faced significant challengers with the financial pressures following the building of the Pioneer stand which led to the selling off of our best players and the subsequent down turn in the clubs on field performance. Then after the relegation in the 2001-02 season and the multiple issues of the ITV Digital collapse, the introduction of a transfer window limiting our ability to control transfer business and all off the back of some bad incoming transfer business left the club in a dire financial state. Relegation at that specific moment in time set our club back years from a financial perspective. On that topic following the recent release of his book there’s also some really good podcast interviews with David Sheepshanks on both Blue Monday and KoA on this topic and the time at the club. If you have the time I’d highly recommend listening to both and perhaps the KoA interview is slightly longer which meant that he perhaps went into a bit more depth about the time of relegation and the issues that faced the club at that time and a set of circumstances which all conspired against us all at once.
https://audioboom.com/posts/89
Then after some early investment in the Marcus Evans era the club was eventually starved of any financial investment leaving it to crumble and head only one way which was downwards. Again at this time the prolonged lack of investment had a significant impact right throughout the club to its very core far beyond the first 11 players representing us on the pitch.
Now we’re into a different era with Gamechanger in charge and it took new investment from them and a slice of luck in getting a great manager in McKenna to turn things around at what ended up being a very fast pace given how far the club had been left to rot by Evans towards the end of his tenure. Under Gamechanger they have invested in all aspects of the club from the first team, the stadium, the women's team, the youth team going to Cat 1 as well as brining back more community engagement.
It’s true that it’s been a while since we’ve had a youth team player come through the ranks to really establish themselves in the first team squad although we have still had the likes of Humphreys, H Clarke and Baggott who at least reach the first team which is no mean feat since they were in youth teams under the Evans era. But I don’t think it’s as easy for teams like Ipswich to bring through young players as it was in the Robson and Burley eras because as has been mentioned by other people above the way that the rules have been set by the biggest PL clubs they are likely to hoover up any young players with have a hint of making it leaving the original club with very little compensation as has happened to Town on several occasions in recent years.
Also even if you do have a bit of luck in keeping a young player to say 18-21 and they establish themselves in your first team the likelihood is that with the financial rules as they currently are that young player will be sold (see Elliot Anderson from Newcastle as an example) because they represent pure profit on the clubs balance sheet and that money can be used to finance other purchases. However in reality for us would that be hugely different from say selling Dyer to finance other purchases that ultimately got us promoted. Plus Dyer isn’t unique because we also sold other former youth team players for profit such as Dozzell, Kiwomya, Wright, Bramble, Wickham and Ambrose.
So rather than say this is an end of an era I think we just have to accept that football changes and it is different now to how it was in the past but it’s always changing and football was different in the 90s versus the 80s and so on. Now we just have to focus on what the club needs to do in order to thrive now. And a lot of that involves player trading and we have to look to the examples of clubs such as Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth as well as others for how clubs such as Town could, with a bit of luck, establish themselves in the PL.
And in terms of what success might look like for us in the future I’d for example happily take the last couple of seasons that Crystal Palace have had when they won an FA Cup and then a European trophy the next season! |  | | |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 12:18 - Jul 22 with 558 views | stonojnr |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 20:27 - Jul 21 by BelsteadCav |
My son was with Ipswich 5/6 years ago when he was 13/14
Told he was too small ( 5ft 10)
Then the academy seemed to be flooded with Arsenal and Chelsea rejects who were all above 6ft
The chances of a local lad being in the side again will be very slim, If hes not over 6ft [Post edited 21 Jul 20:31]
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More like 6ft5 based on the Fulham team we faced 2 seasons ago.
Any parent with a kid wanting to be a footballer should read No Hunger in Paradise or watch the documentary based on it by the author, it was on BT sports, no idea if it made it to TNT.
Its nearly a decade old but it lays bare that the chances of succeeding, unless you re supremely gifted are infinitely small. Because the Premier league is awash with identikit youth players that most clubs just continually burn and drop while searching for the next talent. | | | |
| End of an Era at Ipswich on 18:08 - Jul 22 with 453 views | darkhorse28 |
That’s a choice, many clubs still bring players through, Arsenal could be any higher in the financial pyramid and do it - as a choice. It’s part of their culture and DNA.
And why wouldn’t you be allowed to criticise YOUR club?
You have as much invested and as much right as anyone to have a view on how to best use our resources, to reflect our history and culture .
I think we’ve got youth VERY wrong, we always had players coming through and it’s important to our connection to the community, and obviously they need to be good enough so it doesn’t have any negative impact on results, it only adds to the connection and results.
You don’t need validation from people on here!!!!
If your self worth is attached to that, to thumbs up, then your worth is also attached to the thumbs down.., you’re bigger and better than that.
Have you views. Be prepared to change them, but stand by then irrespective of the ‘room’ which is crammed full of people who would rather ‘fit in’ and be wrong, than stand out, take a social risk, even if they’re right.
The number of thumbs down I get, you’d think I know less than anyone that’s ever visited this site!!
Yet I beat everyone in EPL last year, a league and cup double, unheard of, and I’m 0.001% in the world for about 15 years.
Not by following the crowd. But by being a thinker, who rows his own boat, and won’t always be right, but never had a view that isn’t based on evidence and well considered.
You do you. And chapeau on this, our youth system was always a massive part of who we are, and still should be, and still is at other clubs - it maybe is harder now, but it’s not impossible and it is a choice.
Bramble, Dyer, Dozzell (both of them) Wickham, I think Humphrey’s is a special talent.
I’m an age where connection has been lost, maybe doing this would set our special club apart from the norm, show that we are unique, a one club town built around community.
We can be that and be hugely successful, we just need to want to. | | | |
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