| Maguire handball 23:50 - Aug 30 with 1781 views | kizaitfc |
I know it's been discussed countless times on here.
But how long until we see a pen given for a handball for a defender with his hands in a similar position to Maguire.
For me common sense should have taken precedent and they could have simply said there was a handball in the build up. Ignore the whole scoring direct from a handball. |  |
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| Maguire handball on 01:16 - Aug 31 with 1643 views | Illinoisblue |
The absurdity of the non-handball decision has taken attention away from Shaw’s follow through on Fatawu (who himself was booked for a very similar challenge earlier) yet Shaw escapes a caution. Maybe it’s all the media training and polishing the new generation of managers get but I would love to hear more angry rants about these shameful decisions. VAR has improved absolutely NOTHING and has made refs weaker and more prone to bottling decisions. Fk it all. [Post edited 31 Aug 3:04]
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| Maguire handball on 04:04 - Aug 31 with 1515 views | mellowblue |
| Maguire handball on 01:16 - Aug 31 by Illinoisblue |
The absurdity of the non-handball decision has taken attention away from Shaw’s follow through on Fatawu (who himself was booked for a very similar challenge earlier) yet Shaw escapes a caution. Maybe it’s all the media training and polishing the new generation of managers get but I would love to hear more angry rants about these shameful decisions. VAR has improved absolutely NOTHING and has made refs weaker and more prone to bottling decisions. Fk it all. [Post edited 31 Aug 3:04]
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I think there is a difference in the level of recklessness and force with Fatawu's challenge to Shaw's, which was more gentle in nature. I think that would have a bearing in the ref's mind (and of course the fact Shaw was wearing red and white, naturally.) | | | |
| Maguire handball (n/t) on 06:53 - Aug 31 with 1364 views | Blue_In_Boston |
As football fans we can't have it all ways, PGMOL have said they are applying a lighter touch this season, not re-refereeing the game.
The video assistant referee Jarred Gillett said to referee Craig Pawson: "It's an own goal and the accidental handball is not punishable, so we recommend you award the goal."
No doubt the referee, with hindsight, wishes he had awarded the free kick, but the application of the laws by VAR was correct, even if the outcome was unjust.
[Post edited 31 Aug 6:57]
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| Maguire handball on 07:39 - Aug 31 with 1255 views | Chrisd |
Exactly this. If this incident happened in the United penalty area, it’s a stonewall penalty, the game wouldn’t then carry on. All the narrative afterwards to justify the goal is nonsense. I’m not blaming Maguire or the officials, it’s the law for this type of incident that is utterly ridiculous. | |
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| Maguire handball on 07:55 - Aug 31 with 1216 views | tonybied |
| Maguire handball on 04:04 - Aug 31 by mellowblue |
I think there is a difference in the level of recklessness and force with Fatawu's challenge to Shaw's, which was more gentle in nature. I think that would have a bearing in the ref's mind (and of course the fact Shaw was wearing red and white, naturally.) |
What if you compare that Shaw tackle to the one that got Lukic a card? |  | | |
| MOTD had the correct view of the incident on 08:08 - Aug 31 with 1162 views | unstableblue |
https://www.instagram.com/reel
The VAR team and many armchair pundits are getting drawn into a rules interpretation of a scenario that doesn’t match the events of the situation
It is clearly without doubt a deliberate handball to gain advantage with hands away from the body in an unnatural position
Anything that followed is immaterial |  |
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| Maguire handball (n/t) on 08:10 - Aug 31 with 1148 views | Len_Brennan |
| Maguire handball (n/t) on 06:53 - Aug 31 by Blue_In_Boston |
As football fans we can't have it all ways, PGMOL have said they are applying a lighter touch this season, not re-refereeing the game.
The video assistant referee Jarred Gillett said to referee Craig Pawson: "It's an own goal and the accidental handball is not punishable, so we recommend you award the goal."
No doubt the referee, with hindsight, wishes he had awarded the free kick, but the application of the laws by VAR was correct, even if the outcome was unjust.
[Post edited 31 Aug 6:57]
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The application of the laws would only have been correct if the handball was accidental, but it clearly wasn't. The VAR guy just assumed/accepted that Maguire's handball was accidental, without reviewing it; it's like booking someone for retaliation to a sending off level 2-footed tackle, while ignoring said 2-footed tackle. | |
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| Maguire handball on 08:14 - Aug 31 with 1087 views | Pinewoodblue |
O’Neil hit the nail in the head. It wasn’t this goal that cost us but the way we reacted to it. We allowed the game to slip away from us. |  |
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| Maguire handball on 08:32 - Aug 31 with 992 views | Swansea_Blue |
I do!’t think it can be discussed enough. Not the particular incident per se, but more the rules that allows a situation like that to occur. Someone at the FA needs to make it make sense lol |  |
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| Maguire handball (n/t) on 08:46 - Aug 31 with 897 views | Wickets |
| Maguire handball (n/t) on 06:53 - Aug 31 by Blue_In_Boston |
As football fans we can't have it all ways, PGMOL have said they are applying a lighter touch this season, not re-refereeing the game.
The video assistant referee Jarred Gillett said to referee Craig Pawson: "It's an own goal and the accidental handball is not punishable, so we recommend you award the goal."
No doubt the referee, with hindsight, wishes he had awarded the free kick, but the application of the laws by VAR was correct, even if the outcome was unjust.
[Post edited 31 Aug 6:57]
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Don't agree as for me the Ref has made a clear and obvious error as Maguire has gone forward with his arms in an unatural position it is simply Handball . |  | | |
| Maguire handball on 08:53 - Aug 31 with 858 views | surreyblue |
| Maguire handball on 08:32 - Aug 31 by Swansea_Blue |
I do!’t think it can be discussed enough. Not the particular incident per se, but more the rules that allows a situation like that to occur. Someone at the FA needs to make it make sense lol |
I don't think it helps that there were so many questionable elements of the decision:
1) the referee deems the handball accidental. Big question marks over this. It takes a very liberal interpretation of the rules to come to this decision.
2) VaR either i) reviews the handball and agrees that it is accidental; ii) does not review the handball because it is too early in the play, or iii) reviews the handball and decides there is not enough evidence to overturn it. Subtle but important differences.
3) Because it was an OG, the accidental handball doesn't impact the ability to give a goal. This is correct due to the rules.
So 1) is a highly questionable onfield decision, 2) is a question over VaR procedure, and 3) is a stupid rule correctly applied. [Post edited 31 Aug 8:55]
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| Maguire handball (n/t) on 09:15 - Aug 31 with 742 views | Radlett_blue |
| Maguire handball (n/t) on 08:46 - Aug 31 by Wickets |
Don't agree as for me the Ref has made a clear and obvious error as Maguire has gone forward with his arms in an unatural position it is simply Handball . |
The referee either missed Maguire's blatant handball (both arms came out in front of him to block the ball) or, worse still, decided it wasn't a handball. Unfortunately, the VAR protocol for these things was applied correctly & if Maguire's shot had been on target, the goal would have been disallowed. You can't have it both ways - what if VAR had chalked off our first goal because there had been a minor handball 3 passes beforehand?
Really bad luck all round, but O'Neill was right - we fell apart after that & conceding a really unfortunate equaliser just before half time didn't help either. |  |
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| Maguire handball on 09:17 - Aug 31 with 729 views | BornDeleuze |
Instead we have Shrodinger’s handball.
The ball hits the hands but cannot be judged to be handball until Maguire has kicked the ball. Only then can we see if the ball hitting the hands was really handball, dependent, of course, on the direction of the kicked ball. |  | | |
| Maguire handball on 09:22 - Aug 31 with 678 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Maguire handball on 08:53 - Aug 31 by surreyblue |
I don't think it helps that there were so many questionable elements of the decision:
1) the referee deems the handball accidental. Big question marks over this. It takes a very liberal interpretation of the rules to come to this decision.
2) VaR either i) reviews the handball and agrees that it is accidental; ii) does not review the handball because it is too early in the play, or iii) reviews the handball and decides there is not enough evidence to overturn it. Subtle but important differences.
3) Because it was an OG, the accidental handball doesn't impact the ability to give a goal. This is correct due to the rules.
So 1) is a highly questionable onfield decision, 2) is a question over VaR procedure, and 3) is a stupid rule correctly applied. [Post edited 31 Aug 8:55]
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It’s a mess isn’t it. If accidental and deemed ok, it shouldn’t matter whether it’s an OG or not. To set the bar differently for an offence based on who the ball hits next or not, or where it goes, seems unnecessarily complex and leaves the officials open to dogs abuse. | |
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| Maguire handball on 09:24 - Aug 31 with 661 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| Maguire handball on 01:16 - Aug 31 by Illinoisblue |
The absurdity of the non-handball decision has taken attention away from Shaw’s follow through on Fatawu (who himself was booked for a very similar challenge earlier) yet Shaw escapes a caution. Maybe it’s all the media training and polishing the new generation of managers get but I would love to hear more angry rants about these shameful decisions. VAR has improved absolutely NOTHING and has made refs weaker and more prone to bottling decisions. Fk it all. [Post edited 31 Aug 3:04]
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That foul by Shaw on Fatawu really angered me at the time. Fatawu had completely outpaced him and Shaw just shoves him down that steep drop behind the touchline and slamming into the hoardings. Shaw knows exactly what he's doing, he is trying to injure the winger who has just skinned him. But there simply is no justice at Old Trafford, never has been, never will be. |  |
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| Maguire handball on 09:40 - Aug 31 with 598 views | benrhyddingblue |
| Maguire handball on 09:24 - Aug 31 by LegendofthePhoenix |
That foul by Shaw on Fatawu really angered me at the time. Fatawu had completely outpaced him and Shaw just shoves him down that steep drop behind the touchline and slamming into the hoardings. Shaw knows exactly what he's doing, he is trying to injure the winger who has just skinned him. But there simply is no justice at Old Trafford, never has been, never will be. |
They did have a player sent off by VAR the last time we played there. However, yesterday was a joke. VAR have chosen to interpret the rules in favour of the home team. It isn’t accidental handball in any way whatsoever - anyone think VAR don’t give a penalty if one of our players does that in the box? Goals are wiped out for fouls in the build up and that was foul play to gain an advantage. No way we get a goal at the other end if the same thing happens. | | | |
| Maguire handball (n/t) on 10:10 - Aug 31 with 482 views | farkenhell |
| Maguire handball (n/t) on 09:15 - Aug 31 by Radlett_blue |
The referee either missed Maguire's blatant handball (both arms came out in front of him to block the ball) or, worse still, decided it wasn't a handball. Unfortunately, the VAR protocol for these things was applied correctly & if Maguire's shot had been on target, the goal would have been disallowed. You can't have it both ways - what if VAR had chalked off our first goal because there had been a minor handball 3 passes beforehand?
Really bad luck all round, but O'Neill was right - we fell apart after that & conceding a really unfortunate equaliser just before half time didn't help either. |
Genuine question- are you saying that VAR was not allowed to review whether or not the handball was deliberate (which it clearly was btw) because Maguire's shot hit Greaves, and was therefore deemed to be a break in the play, before the ball went into the net?
I don't know the ins and outs of when VAR can or can't become involved, but if that is an example of the current VAR protocol, then that is completely ridiculous.
Or is it the case that VAR was allowed to intervene, but he f@cked up yesterday by not reviewing whether or not the handball was deliberate (or he did review it, but decided that it was accidental) - leading to the entirely separate point about whether or not the accidental handball should have disallowed the goal? | | | |
| Maguire handball on 10:15 - Aug 31 with 458 views | MagicMoe |
Maybe if Akpom had played to the whistle, rather than interrupt his attempt at challenging Maguire to appeal for the handball, we wouldn't even be talking about this. Basic stuff. | | | |
| Maguire handball on 10:18 - Aug 31 with 429 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Maguire handball on 09:17 - Aug 31 by BornDeleuze |
Instead we have Shrodinger’s handball.
The ball hits the hands but cannot be judged to be handball until Maguire has kicked the ball. Only then can we see if the ball hitting the hands was really handball, dependent, of course, on the direction of the kicked ball. |
“dependent, of course, on the direction of the kicked ball” and quite possibly who kicks the ball and in which stadium.
It’s mental that there’s no common sense override to the correct application of the wording of the rules.
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| Maguire handball (n/t) on 10:22 - Aug 31 with 407 views | SWLondonBlue93 |
| Maguire handball (n/t) on 06:53 - Aug 31 by Blue_In_Boston |
As football fans we can't have it all ways, PGMOL have said they are applying a lighter touch this season, not re-refereeing the game.
The video assistant referee Jarred Gillett said to referee Craig Pawson: "It's an own goal and the accidental handball is not punishable, so we recommend you award the goal."
No doubt the referee, with hindsight, wishes he had awarded the free kick, but the application of the laws by VAR was correct, even if the outcome was unjust.
[Post edited 31 Aug 6:57]
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The problem with the "lighter touch" claim is inevitably we will very soon see a decision overturned by VAR which is highly contentious. Every year we hear that they don't want to re-referee the game, and every year that claim falls apart within weeks. Quite simply, they make it up as they go along. | | | |
| Maguire handball on 10:53 - Aug 31 with 305 views | Smoresy |
Yeah wrongly they decided the handball wasn't an offence. Nothing dubious about that Harry, just make sure you don't stick it straight in the net afterwards because you technically gave an audition for basketball. Scandalous stuff but it's the only reason we moved on to the arcane rule around off-target shots being permissible.
That rule is actually a tightening of the handball laws; before then you could accidentally handball it and score the goal. Was there a time when any handball was a foul, regardless of whether your hands were "inside your silhouette" or accidentally hit? Can't remember. | | | |
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