| Defence tactics 16:39 - Sep 2 with 2018 views | Mckenna1263 |
Did anyone think we tried to play too much football against United and got caught? When Nunez lost possession we only had one defender back and paid the price. I am not a fan of the low block but sometimes you can't go all out attack otherwise you get caught out like last weekend especially away from home. |  | | |  |
| Defence tactics on 17:53 - Sep 2 with 1853 views | Adams |
Yes. We've all seen how Man U struggle against teams that sit back and counter. We have the players to do it, and I was sure we would play like that. I'm not suggesting parking the bus, but United players struggle when there's not space, and our tactics gave them what they wanted.
Even in the first half, where we played well, I was concerned, and I could see what was coming and felt that even if we went 2 up, they would win.
They consistently punished us when we lost the ball and didn't have enough cover.
There were lots of positives, and I wasn't expecting to win anyway, but I was really surprised and frustrated by our tactics. We were incredibly naive. | | | |
| Defence tactics on 18:13 - Sep 2 with 1781 views | FrimleyBlue |
When nunez lost the ball we had a throw in just by the corner flag
If we had half our side back. Wed have been annoyed
Davis throw was terrible tho so wasted the opportunity. |  |
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| Defence tactics on 23:08 - Sep 2 with 1561 views | Olcol |
| Defence tactics on 17:53 - Sep 2 by Adams |
Yes. We've all seen how Man U struggle against teams that sit back and counter. We have the players to do it, and I was sure we would play like that. I'm not suggesting parking the bus, but United players struggle when there's not space, and our tactics gave them what they wanted.
Even in the first half, where we played well, I was concerned, and I could see what was coming and felt that even if we went 2 up, they would win.
They consistently punished us when we lost the ball and didn't have enough cover.
There were lots of positives, and I wasn't expecting to win anyway, but I was really surprised and frustrated by our tactics. We were incredibly naive. |
The first half slip, and equaliser gave them hope. The handball that wasn't given changed the game. How could we get back from 2v1 down without some counter attacks. We just did not settle for 25 minutes after their second goal. I suppose that is where GON's emotional maturity was aimed at. The ref was at fault for calling it accidental handball and we lose it for 25 minutes. We have to get past that and get on with the plan. It was good to get a goal back, it means we know how to do it better next time.
Losing Emmerson at half time limited our attack options as well. At least we have Flemming as well now. | | | |
| Defence tactics on 23:40 - Sep 2 with 1475 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I wouldn't say it was so much playing too much football but rather a crazy spell where we fell apart.
If you take away the part where we were suddenly wide open and conceded goals, we might have got a 2-2 draw out of the game to goals against us that were due to a slip (coupled with being caught too far forward) and a goal following a handball that was ruled accidental.
My takeaway (as O'Neill's appeared to be) is that we reacted poorly to adversity. We need to learn the lesson there and stay much more solid in the face of it. |  |
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| Defence tactics on 23:48 - Sep 2 with 1468 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
Absolutely not. We were excellent in the first half, and very much the team in the ascendancy. We could have been 3 up, and pushing for another goal was the right thing to do.
The game turned on a very misfortunate slip, and a travesty of the rules. We then went to pieces for 15 minutes. If we can play like that against 2/3rds of the team in the division, we’ll come away with points more often than not. | | | |
| Defence tactics on 02:16 - Sep 3 with 1380 views | charlie1 |
| Defence tactics on 23:40 - Sep 2 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I wouldn't say it was so much playing too much football but rather a crazy spell where we fell apart.
If you take away the part where we were suddenly wide open and conceded goals, we might have got a 2-2 draw out of the game to goals against us that were due to a slip (coupled with being caught too far forward) and a goal following a handball that was ruled accidental.
My takeaway (as O'Neill's appeared to be) is that we reacted poorly to adversity. We need to learn the lesson there and stay much more solid in the face of it. |
So not run toward it then? | | | |
| Defence tactics on 06:15 - Sep 3 with 1258 views | ITFCSG |
| Defence tactics on 02:16 - Sep 3 by charlie1 |
So not run toward it then? |
"Mentally weak"
Letting in 2, 3 goals in a short space of time was a regular occurrence in 24/25
Seems like we haven't fixed this problem yet | | | |
| Defence tactics on 07:22 - Sep 3 with 1177 views | Adams |
| Defence tactics on 23:48 - Sep 2 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Absolutely not. We were excellent in the first half, and very much the team in the ascendancy. We could have been 3 up, and pushing for another goal was the right thing to do.
The game turned on a very misfortunate slip, and a travesty of the rules. We then went to pieces for 15 minutes. If we can play like that against 2/3rds of the team in the division, we’ll come away with points more often than not. |
Man U had their fourth-highest XG since 2012/2013. They had 33 shots.
It had nothing to do with a slip and the rules. They were always going to come out strong in the second half, and when they did, they hammered us. We were wide open. Every time we lost the ball, all it took was one pass for them to have a chance. It was really bad and shouldn't ever happen at this level.
If we're that open all season, we'll get lots of praise from pundits and opposing managers, but we will go down. Even the bottom half clubs will punish us for that. The game was there for us to take if we were a bit smarter.
Fortunately, we have the talent to stay up, and I don't think O'Neil will make it so easy for other teams again. [Post edited 3 Sep 7:29]
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| Defence tactics on 08:21 - Sep 3 with 1073 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Defence tactics on 07:22 - Sep 3 by Adams |
Man U had their fourth-highest XG since 2012/2013. They had 33 shots.
It had nothing to do with a slip and the rules. They were always going to come out strong in the second half, and when they did, they hammered us. We were wide open. Every time we lost the ball, all it took was one pass for them to have a chance. It was really bad and shouldn't ever happen at this level.
If we're that open all season, we'll get lots of praise from pundits and opposing managers, but we will go down. Even the bottom half clubs will punish us for that. The game was there for us to take if we were a bit smarter.
Fortunately, we have the talent to stay up, and I don't think O'Neil will make it so easy for other teams again. [Post edited 3 Sep 7:29]
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It has everything to do with it. It was a turning point, especially the 2nd. The game momentum turned significant on that 2nd goal, and we never recovered.
Headline stats never tell the full story. Take your xG reference. Yes, it was high, but if you delve into the detail most of Liverpool’s xG was in that compressed period of madness. We lost our heads, and our shape and were punished for it. In the first half our xG was higher than theirs.
Yes, they were always going to come at us in the 2nd half, but it’s naïve to suggest that moments like we encountered don’t lift one team at the expense of the other. We do have to be better at responding to such set backs though. | | | |
| Defence tactics on 08:31 - Sep 3 with 1037 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
I did think we were a bit too open in midfield tbh. United seemed to go from defence to attack insanely quickly.
Didn't mind us playing out though. |  |
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| Defence tactics on 08:35 - Sep 3 with 1023 views | Vic |
I only saw the first half, but on that evidence I thought we were absolutely right to take the game to them. They were aweful and on another day could have scored 2 or 3. Id have been really disappointed if wed have sat back and played safe because there was absolutely no need to.
Ive no idea what happened 2nd half, but it sounds like we needed to drop back, regroup and weather the storm. Its interesting because although its a completely different group of players we have had those horrid 15 minutes of panic in previous seasons. I guess its what happens sometimes. |  |
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| Defence tactics on 08:35 - Sep 3 with 1019 views | TownieRob |
Nunez slipped. You cannot justify or plan for that. The timing of the slip and the subsquent goal really couldnt have come at a worse time.
I was really proud of confidence to take the game to United so no issues with how we setup and went at them.
My concerns at the time and post game were how quickly we fell apart following the handball. Unsure if it was headloss or a perfect storm, either way I am hopeful we dont see it again. Lot's of experience through the spine of the team now so I am telling myself it was a freak occurence.. [Post edited 3 Sep 8:58]
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| Defence tactics on 08:54 - Sep 3 with 954 views | unstableblue |
Hmmmmm
I think up until the slip the plan had been executed perfectly
Best form of defence is sometimes attack, the way we pushed up on them meant they were unable to attack us. Including Fernandez goal they only had three shots on target and one big chance in that entire first half. Second half when it unravelled they had 8 shots on target and 8 big chances.
In short we began to tire on 50mins, and the press and more attack minded plan starting to collapse and United started to come in waves. This was the time to switch to a back 5 and even bring in fresh legs. But we didn’t and we got badly punished.
Having said that as GON said we also got really ragged in terms of the back 4, central mids and wide players coming back. Especially on the left side.
In summary sitting deep for 90mins is not feasible, you just wait for a goal, then have to come out, and then get punished further.
We need to get a balance of shape where you transition quickly between defensive and attacking in numbers*. That is GON plan.
* it was heartening the number of players we got into their box in that first half. |  |
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| Defence tactics on 09:26 - Sep 3 with 896 views | Lion |
We were great against Man United for 55 minutes but its a circa 95 minute game now. I think particularly against the 'big' sides, when they score they sense blood and then, like against Man U, we concede multiple goals in batches. Being in the premier league is not just about having the ability, of which we have plenty, you have to have the mental toughness and you have to be 'street smart '. If , and hopefully not when, we concede against Liverpool or go a goal down, i think we should possibly concede attacking play and concentrate on being a really tight defensive unit for 10 minutes, ride out the storm and take the sting out of them getting up a head of steam. You could still leave, say, Encisco on the half way line and who knows, we could maybe nick one back from a clearance or long ball. That way, it doesn't matter if we get pummelled for a bit, we are still in the game and can throw a little caution to the wind if we are heading for a defeat come 80 minutes with the North Stand sucking the ball into the net! .
Who knows, if we had managed to do that against Man U at 2-1 down, Akpom's goal could have nicked us a draw. Hopefully the team will become more premier savvy as the season progresses, to be fair to them after the injustice of the Maguire goal, there can't be many more mentally tough places to keep your head then in front of 75,000 at Man United.
BTW, the fans that were lucky enough to get an away ticket to Old Trafford were fantastic, they were the ones you could hear before, during and after the game on the television. [Post edited 3 Sep 10:18]
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| Defence tactics on 09:42 - Sep 3 with 867 views | melbs_itfc |
| Defence tactics on 09:26 - Sep 3 by Lion |
We were great against Man United for 55 minutes but its a circa 95 minute game now. I think particularly against the 'big' sides, when they score they sense blood and then, like against Man U, we concede multiple goals in batches. Being in the premier league is not just about having the ability, of which we have plenty, you have to have the mental toughness and you have to be 'street smart '. If , and hopefully not when, we concede against Liverpool or go a goal down, i think we should possibly concede attacking play and concentrate on being a really tight defensive unit for 10 minutes, ride out the storm and take the sting out of them getting up a head of steam. You could still leave, say, Encisco on the half way line and who knows, we could maybe nick one back from a clearance or long ball. That way, it doesn't matter if we get pummelled for a bit, we are still in the game and can throw a little caution to the wind if we are heading for a defeat come 80 minutes with the North Stand sucking the ball into the net! .
Who knows, if we had managed to do that against Man U at 2-1 down, Akpom's goal could have nicked us a draw. Hopefully the team will become more premier savvy as the season progresses, to be fair to them after the injustice of the Maguire goal, there can't be many more mentally tough places to keep your head then in front of 75,000 at Man United.
BTW, the fans that were lucky enough to get an away ticket to Old Trafford were fantastic, they were the ones you could hear before, during and after the game on the television. [Post edited 3 Sep 10:18]
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“I think there is a stat out there that in the 24/25 season, if the games had actually finished on 90 minutes we would have comfortably survived.”
I think the stat may have been if the games finished at half-time, but stand to be corrected. | | | |
| Defence tactics on 11:43 - Sep 3 with 772 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Defence tactics on 09:42 - Sep 3 by melbs_itfc |
“I think there is a stat out there that in the 24/25 season, if the games had actually finished on 90 minutes we would have comfortably survived.”
I think the stat may have been if the games finished at half-time, but stand to be corrected. |
You are correct. We conceded a lot in the second half, and let games get away from us. In fact I think I saw a stat that we were close to the top of the stats for goals scored in the first 15, and conceded in the final 15+added time. | | | |
| Defence tactics on 11:49 - Sep 3 with 754 views | ThatMuhrenCross |
I must admit, it did baffle me that at 1-0 up away to Manchester United we only had one player back after Nunez slipped. You have to pick your moments in these games, and sitting tight and seeing it through to half-time at 1-0 would have seemed like the sensible option. I almost felt as though we got a bit too sure of ourselves. |  |
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| Defence tactics on 12:06 - Sep 3 with 708 views | TownieRob |
| Defence tactics on 11:49 - Sep 3 by ThatMuhrenCross |
I must admit, it did baffle me that at 1-0 up away to Manchester United we only had one player back after Nunez slipped. You have to pick your moments in these games, and sitting tight and seeing it through to half-time at 1-0 would have seemed like the sensible option. I almost felt as though we got a bit too sure of ourselves. |
We had one player back as we had possession? | | | |
| Defence tactics on 12:08 - Sep 3 with 696 views | dirtyboy |
| Defence tactics on 08:35 - Sep 3 by TownieRob |
Nunez slipped. You cannot justify or plan for that. The timing of the slip and the subsquent goal really couldnt have come at a worse time.
I was really proud of confidence to take the game to United so no issues with how we setup and went at them.
My concerns at the time and post game were how quickly we fell apart following the handball. Unsure if it was headloss or a perfect storm, either way I am hopeful we dont see it again. Lot's of experience through the spine of the team now so I am telling myself it was a freak occurence.. [Post edited 3 Sep 8:58]
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You're absolutely right. Seen a few comments about player positions when Nunez slipped, but what happened cannot be planned for in formation, it was an innocuous pass back and 99/100 Nunez puts ball back in the danger area where we had players forward.
On another day, we might have scored and gone 2-0 up, but United got their moment of luck in the 1% and again moments later.
I do think we reacted poorly, easy to do, two 'moments' as opposed to anything spectacularly poor and goals change games.
We tried way too hard after that and made it worse.
Just have to hope we learn quick. |  | | |
| Defence tactics on 12:59 - Sep 3 with 612 views | Vaughan8 |
Initially no.
But I thought after half time and especially after they got 2-12, we just needed to defend and not let anymore goals in. Gave a silly penalty away pretty much straight after and the games dead.
Hopefully we learn from that and can "emotiionally" adapt better. | | | |
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