| What level of cheating is acceptable? 13:20 - Oct 2 with 1345 views | Blue_In_Boston |
Discounting the ongoing Man City and Southampton situations that are both 'off pitch' charges, what as fans are we prepared to accept on the pitch?
Going back to the early to mid-90s I remember Boncho Guenchev going down three times in the box v Sheffield Wednesday in the league Cup. Despite contact being minimal on each occasion, us in the North Stand appealed loudly, and the third occasion resulted in a penalty and a replay. Hand on heart, did I believe any of the shouts were a penalty... no.
More recently we have had a red (second yellow) for a blatant dive, if that had happened last season in the area with no VAR, and that penalty secured points that were pivotal to our promotion come the end of the season how do we feel about it? |  | | |  |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 13:26 - Oct 2 with 1311 views | Metal_Hacker |
The things you mention has happened in games for donkey's years , the finaicial "irregularites" seen by City haven't |  |
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| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 14:07 - Oct 2 with 1186 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 13:26 - Oct 2 by Metal_Hacker |
The things you mention has happened in games for donkey's years , the finaicial "irregularites" seen by City haven't |
That's why I said discounting City.
Because it has happened for years does that mean we have all got accepting of cheating on the pitch? | | | |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 14:21 - Oct 2 with 1152 views | Metal_Hacker |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 14:07 - Oct 2 by Blue_In_Boston |
That's why I said discounting City.
Because it has happened for years does that mean we have all got accepting of cheating on the pitch? |
The "cheating" on the pitch will neevr go away and never should it . We've all moaned about the dark arts but when we do it it's greeted with " it's about time we've joined in" etc .
When rules are in place human nature sugegsts we will always look to bend them or manipulate but I suppose it's to what level . Someone pretending to be injured to get some tactical message ont othe pitch as we saw in KMcK's day with Connor Chaplin , I thought it was great and on occassion it worked wonders .
It's different levels i guess , bending the rules is one thing , breaking them blatantly is another | |
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| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 14:23 - Oct 2 with 1143 views | barcelonablue2 |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 14:07 - Oct 2 by Blue_In_Boston |
That's why I said discounting City.
Because it has happened for years does that mean we have all got accepting of cheating on the pitch? |
It is where the argument of consistency also comes in doesn't it.
On a football pitch there can often be little between right or wrong but you have to accept you will die on your chosen sword.
For example if youre a physical player that puts in heavy challenges but then goes over at the gust of a wind. Most opposition fans and probably some of your own will think very little of you. |  | | |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 14:37 - Oct 2 with 1076 views | BseaBlue |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 14:23 - Oct 2 by barcelonablue2 |
It is where the argument of consistency also comes in doesn't it.
On a football pitch there can often be little between right or wrong but you have to accept you will die on your chosen sword.
For example if youre a physical player that puts in heavy challenges but then goes over at the gust of a wind. Most opposition fans and probably some of your own will think very little of you. |
Players at the highest level are usually there because of their competitive edge. Ideally, game management etc needs to be eradicated from the game (and some rule changes such as the subs time limit, players going off for a minute after treatment etc are helping with it)
There is a big difference though between players trying to gain a competitive advantage by trying to buy a foul, in comparison to the actions of club officials which could have legal ramifications.
I make you right that in the moment, players will tempt fate but accept that there could be consequences during the match (Such as Fatawu found out against Everton!)
But trying to cheat the rules by financial doping or having relationships with heads of refereeing departments is just plain corruption. |  | | |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 14:38 - Oct 2 with 1075 views | mellowblue |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 13:26 - Oct 2 by Metal_Hacker |
The things you mention has happened in games for donkey's years , the finaicial "irregularites" seen by City haven't |
you are right those irregularities have not been seen before but I bet they have happened and clubs have got away with it. Chelsea and PSG seem likely. | | | |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 15:05 - Oct 2 with 996 views | barcelonablue2 |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 14:37 - Oct 2 by BseaBlue |
Players at the highest level are usually there because of their competitive edge. Ideally, game management etc needs to be eradicated from the game (and some rule changes such as the subs time limit, players going off for a minute after treatment etc are helping with it)
There is a big difference though between players trying to gain a competitive advantage by trying to buy a foul, in comparison to the actions of club officials which could have legal ramifications.
I make you right that in the moment, players will tempt fate but accept that there could be consequences during the match (Such as Fatawu found out against Everton!)
But trying to cheat the rules by financial doping or having relationships with heads of refereeing departments is just plain corruption. |
It is why i added "on the pitch".
I don't find City's behaviour at all acceptable and being consistent with previous rulings off the pitch. See Leeds City in the first Division, they essentially need to be banished.
It's extreme but the fact the owners, directors, managers and players (although not all) have taken share in this cheating and still today deny it and try to gaslight their innocence means their is no way back for the club. Just remove them. Remove them from being an FA eligible club and let the true fans have to rebirth the club if its that truly big we will find out.
Leeds are massive again. Why because it is a big club. If half of Manchester is truly blue and the players and managers are too they will come back as a new club. On an exception, that anyone from that period of cheating condemned cannot no go near the new club with a barge pole.
Then let the current owners face all the fines. They have the pockets for it and likely will just avoid it. The UK government can do some dodgy deal where it's written off and so everyone is diplomatically happy and the UAE prince saves face as he is found innocent. The end? | | | |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 15:38 - Oct 2 with 916 views | RetroBlue |
None. ....next question |  |
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| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 15:46 - Oct 2 with 900 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 15:38 - Oct 2 by RetroBlue |
None. ....next question |
In the ideal world, but the only person who enters the field of play not prepared to cheat is the referee. | | | |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 15:58 - Oct 2 with 876 views | MattinLondon |
If a Town player cheats and gets away with it then I’m fine with it. If it helps us to win then I’m more than happy with it. |  | | |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 18:13 - Oct 2 with 767 views | NBVJohn |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 15:46 - Oct 2 by Blue_In_Boston |
In the ideal world, but the only person who enters the field of play not prepared to cheat is the referee. |
I'm not convinced that's actually the reality of it though.
I love the game of football, and always have done. But it's being ruined by the acceptance and in some cases, the media applauding it.
Certain phrases from deadheaded pundits sum it up:
He has the right to go down - no he doesn't, that's gravity's decision
Game management - slowing down restarts etc. that's cheating
Tactical fouling - elite teams like - oddly enough - Man City disrupting an opponent breaking. That's cynical cheating
Dark arts - cheating
As for referee's 'not wanting to show a red card this early in a game'. Nonsense - why not, if the rules dictate a sending off offence? It's an acceptance of cheating. | | | |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 19:33 - Oct 2 with 704 views | Swansea_Blue |
It’s a good question. Ideally none is acceptable but anyone who’s played the game knows you, er, push the boundaries a bit. Defenders throwing themselves to the ground when shielding the ball and then grabbing the ball really gets my goat for some reason. I’ll always cheer a ref who books the defender for handball. The disconnect between holding in the box at set pieces and the barest of touches when attackers “initiate contact” also annoys me. Both seem like cheating to me at the opposite ends of the spectrum. But as a player you’re always looking for a way to gain the advantage and get away with it. |  |
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| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 19:49 - Oct 2 with 681 views | Swansea_Blue |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 15:46 - Oct 2 by Blue_In_Boston |
In the ideal world, but the only person who enters the field of play not prepared to cheat is the referee. |
Ah, you’ve not seen Bobby Madley then?! | |
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| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 07:27 - Oct 3 with 496 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 15:58 - Oct 2 by MattinLondon |
If a Town player cheats and gets away with it then I’m fine with it. If it helps us to win then I’m more than happy with it. |
That is a very honest answer. I guess when we benefit from a 'soft' penalty or the like we use the argument that we have been on the wrong end of similar decisions. | | | |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 08:06 - Oct 3 with 460 views | Mark |
| What level of cheating is acceptable? on 18:13 - Oct 2 by NBVJohn |
I'm not convinced that's actually the reality of it though.
I love the game of football, and always have done. But it's being ruined by the acceptance and in some cases, the media applauding it.
Certain phrases from deadheaded pundits sum it up:
He has the right to go down - no he doesn't, that's gravity's decision
Game management - slowing down restarts etc. that's cheating
Tactical fouling - elite teams like - oddly enough - Man City disrupting an opponent breaking. That's cynical cheating
Dark arts - cheating
As for referee's 'not wanting to show a red card this early in a game'. Nonsense - why not, if the rules dictate a sending off offence? It's an acceptance of cheating. |
Indeed. When a player is breaking and an opponent blatantly pulls his shirt, that is "worth a yellow card". Perhaps it should be a red card then.
Another factor is that yellow cards are less of a punishment than they used to be. Teams have five substitutes so can easily take off booked players. If players are suspended it doesn't matter as squads are so big and there are so many competitions (if banned in one, play is another).
Not everyone is a cheat. I think Matt Holland only got a couple of yellow cards in his whole Ipswich career. [Post edited 3 Oct 8:07]
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