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Continuing the theme of rating PMs, it was the sacking of Olly Robbins that for me was the real low point of the Starmer regime given he was a lawyer and acted without due process in a desperate attempt to save his job.
Accordingly, this from last week was good news. And it was good to see the support offered by the FDA, of which I am a retired member.
"Six-figure payout for senior civil servant sacked over Peter Mandelson vetting
Former head of Foreign Office Olly Robbins applied for judicial review after Keir Starmer dismissed him in April"
"In a statement on Friday, Robbins said he was “grateful for all the support and good wishes from former colleagues, friends and strangers, which have helped me and my family during this difficult time”.
He added: “I want to thank the FDA [union] for their assistance in reaching this settlement and I am looking forward to moving on to the next chapter of my life.”
Dave Penman, general secretary of the FDA, which represents senior civil servants, said: “This settlement may bring an end to the judicial review proceedings, but this whole unprecedented affair has damaged the bond of trust between civil servants and ministers, which is essential to the effective running of government.
“The scapegoating of Sir Oliver, to mask the misjudgment of the previous prime minister, marked one of the lowest points in the recent history of civil service-ministerial relations – which is quite the feat.
“We urge the government to clarify quickly the issues raised by this affair over ministerial involvement in the vetting process.”
"Robbins’ legal submission had made the case that Starmer had no statutory authority to dismiss him as the head of the diplomatic service, and that there had been “no fair procedure” and “no process at all” in the dismissal. It also said Robbins had been given “irrational” reasons for being fired."
The moral of the tale is to join a union if you are able.
But something you felt appropriate to post at the time.
Yes, but then I thought, "I should be better than that".
In the context of some of the other stuff that various people post on here it was a very mild bit of judgementalism wasn't it? And qualified with a "perhaps it's in jest".
I assume that you actually saw it in the minute or so it was up?
Good work by Philogene...... GREAT WORK BY PHILOGENE!!!
Continuing the theme of rating PMs, it was the sacking of Olly Robbins that for me was the real low point of the Starmer regime given he was a lawyer and acted without due process in a desperate attempt to save his job.
Accordingly, this from last week was good news. And it was good to see the support offered by the FDA, of which I am a retired member.
"Six-figure payout for senior civil servant sacked over Peter Mandelson vetting
Former head of Foreign Office Olly Robbins applied for judicial review after Keir Starmer dismissed him in April"
"In a statement on Friday, Robbins said he was “grateful for all the support and good wishes from former colleagues, friends and strangers, which have helped me and my family during this difficult time”.
He added: “I want to thank the FDA [union] for their assistance in reaching this settlement and I am looking forward to moving on to the next chapter of my life.”
Dave Penman, general secretary of the FDA, which represents senior civil servants, said: “This settlement may bring an end to the judicial review proceedings, but this whole unprecedented affair has damaged the bond of trust between civil servants and ministers, which is essential to the effective running of government.
“The scapegoating of Sir Oliver, to mask the misjudgment of the previous prime minister, marked one of the lowest points in the recent history of civil service-ministerial relations – which is quite the feat.
“We urge the government to clarify quickly the issues raised by this affair over ministerial involvement in the vetting process.”
"Robbins’ legal submission had made the case that Starmer had no statutory authority to dismiss him as the head of the diplomatic service, and that there had been “no fair procedure” and “no process at all” in the dismissal. It also said Robbins had been given “irrational” reasons for being fired."
The moral of the tale is to join a union if you are able.
[Post edited 22 Oct 17:12]
Starmer has probably been the most disappointing pm of my lifetime, when measured against my expectations. Obviously the likes of Truss and Johnson were much worse, but I expected that.
There were lots of warnings from lefties like you and Dozzerz on here, and others elsewhere, but bloody hell he was bad as as supposed Labour pm.
[Post edited 22 Oct 18:35]
I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun.
I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
Starmer has probably been the most disappointing pm of my lifetime, when measured against my expectations. Obviously the likes of Truss and Johnson were much worse, but I expected that.
There were lots of warnings from lefties like you and Dozzerz on here, and others elsewhere, but bloody hell he was bad as as supposed Labour pm.
[Post edited 22 Oct 18:35]
You do the football, I'll do the politics and we'll be right! Did you spot our mutual friend in The Pancakes video BTW? (Weird music thread)
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Continuing the theme of rating PMs, it was the sacking of Olly Robbins that for me was the real low point of the Starmer regime given he was a lawyer and acted without due process in a desperate attempt to save his job.
Accordingly, this from last week was good news. And it was good to see the support offered by the FDA, of which I am a retired member.
"Six-figure payout for senior civil servant sacked over Peter Mandelson vetting
Former head of Foreign Office Olly Robbins applied for judicial review after Keir Starmer dismissed him in April"
"In a statement on Friday, Robbins said he was “grateful for all the support and good wishes from former colleagues, friends and strangers, which have helped me and my family during this difficult time”.
He added: “I want to thank the FDA [union] for their assistance in reaching this settlement and I am looking forward to moving on to the next chapter of my life.”
Dave Penman, general secretary of the FDA, which represents senior civil servants, said: “This settlement may bring an end to the judicial review proceedings, but this whole unprecedented affair has damaged the bond of trust between civil servants and ministers, which is essential to the effective running of government.
“The scapegoating of Sir Oliver, to mask the misjudgment of the previous prime minister, marked one of the lowest points in the recent history of civil service-ministerial relations – which is quite the feat.
“We urge the government to clarify quickly the issues raised by this affair over ministerial involvement in the vetting process.”
"Robbins’ legal submission had made the case that Starmer had no statutory authority to dismiss him as the head of the diplomatic service, and that there had been “no fair procedure” and “no process at all” in the dismissal. It also said Robbins had been given “irrational” reasons for being fired."
The moral of the tale is to join a union if you are able.
[Post edited 22 Oct 17:12]
Starmer has to be up there. If we just talk 21st Century, I’m going, from worst to best although highly subjective of course:
1. Cameron. Referendum madness and entertaining Osborne’s austerity plan to impoverish the nation. A hapless and useful idiot for the forces that have worked against the people of the UK ever since. Pretty much every ailment inflicting the UK (bar COVID impacts) can be traced back to his decisions. 2. Johnson. A liar and a charlatan in power at the worst possible time of a global pandemic. Rode his populist bullshit into office while trampling over the rights and dignity of the rest of us. A lazy con man totally unsuited to office. 3. Starmer. A political simpleton unable to develop a coherent policy position and wasted 2 years of a huge majority that we didn’t have time for him to waste. 4. Truss. lol. Not in power long enough to cause too much damage, except for those needing a new mortgage deal during or after her brief tenure. Delusional and way out of her depth. 5. Sunak. Bless him, tried hard. Inoffensive and equally as ineffective. On a hiding to nothing because Johnson and Truss had f***ed the Tories by then. 6. May. Hampered by ideological arseholes in her party, but did her best unconvincingly to limit the damage caused by Cameron. Should be given more credit than she gets for at least trying. 7. Burnham. Jury still out. Not Starmer, so that in itself earns him a few places on the list. Some positive early sign, but also a few worrying ones. Needs to be braver and shape the narrative/our future and not capitulate to lobbyists like Starmer did. 8. Brown - lacked charisma and the political reach/connection of Blair, but excellent response to the banking crisis of 2008. Unfortunately his approach to regulation of the banking sector left us more vulnerable to the crisis, so swing and roundabouts. 9. Bliar, er sorry I mean Blair. Strongest domestic record of any PM this Century. Oversaw an era of renewal, poverty reduction, improvement of public services the envy of the world, and united the country. Foreign affairs another matter and many believe he needs to be in The Hague over his Iraq dealings. Also lumbered the NHS with long-term shackles of privately financed debt. Could easily be number 3 on the list, but I’ve given weight to his unsurpassed domestic record.
(Edit- sorry, lol. I meant 21st Century and have now added Brown/Blair)
Starmer has to be up there. If we just talk 21st Century, I’m going, from worst to best although highly subjective of course:
1. Cameron. Referendum madness and entertaining Osborne’s austerity plan to impoverish the nation. A hapless and useful idiot for the forces that have worked against the people of the UK ever since. Pretty much every ailment inflicting the UK (bar COVID impacts) can be traced back to his decisions. 2. Johnson. A liar and a charlatan in power at the worst possible time of a global pandemic. Rode his populist bullshit into office while trampling over the rights and dignity of the rest of us. A lazy con man totally unsuited to office. 3. Starmer. A political simpleton unable to develop a coherent policy position and wasted 2 years of a huge majority that we didn’t have time for him to waste. 4. Truss. lol. Not in power long enough to cause too much damage, except for those needing a new mortgage deal during or after her brief tenure. Delusional and way out of her depth. 5. Sunak. Bless him, tried hard. Inoffensive and equally as ineffective. On a hiding to nothing because Johnson and Truss had f***ed the Tories by then. 6. May. Hampered by ideological arseholes in her party, but did her best unconvincingly to limit the damage caused by Cameron. Should be given more credit than she gets for at least trying. 7. Burnham. Jury still out. Not Starmer, so that in itself earns him a few places on the list. Some positive early sign, but also a few worrying ones. Needs to be braver and shape the narrative/our future and not capitulate to lobbyists like Starmer did. 8. Brown - lacked charisma and the political reach/connection of Blair, but excellent response to the banking crisis of 2008. Unfortunately his approach to regulation of the banking sector left us more vulnerable to the crisis, so swing and roundabouts. 9. Bliar, er sorry I mean Blair. Strongest domestic record of any PM this Century. Oversaw an era of renewal, poverty reduction, improvement of public services the envy of the world, and united the country. Foreign affairs another matter and many believe he needs to be in The Hague over his Iraq dealings. Also lumbered the NHS with long-term shackles of privately financed debt. Could easily be number 3 on the list, but I’ve given weight to his unsurpassed domestic record.
(Edit- sorry, lol. I meant 21st Century and have now added Brown/Blair)
[Post edited 22 Oct 20:21]
Not sure how Blair having contributed to the death of 100’s of thousands of deaths in the Middle East ranks so modestly. How is that different from Netenyau, genuine question. Not to mention the death of hundreds of British servicemen in two wars of dubious legal nature, he should be number one and it’s not close?
Not sure how Blair having contributed to the death of 100’s of thousands of deaths in the Middle East ranks so modestly. How is that different from Netenyau, genuine question. Not to mention the death of hundreds of British servicemen in two wars of dubious legal nature, he should be number one and it’s not close?
You’re quite right IMO.
The murder of hundreds of thousands of innocents, decades of war, numerous war crimes aren’t really offset by creating Sure Start.
Bloke should be seeing put his days behind bars, not revelling in the extreme wealth he created for himself along the way.
Not sure how Blair having contributed to the death of 100’s of thousands of deaths in the Middle East ranks so modestly. How is that different from Netenyau, genuine question. Not to mention the death of hundreds of British servicemen in two wars of dubious legal nature, he should be number one and it’s not close?
As I mentioned, my reasoning it as based on his domestic record through his premiership and yes if we prioritise Iraq instead he would be near the worst. He 100% should be held accountable for lying to parliament and his likely war crimes (but won’t be).
The way he’s different to Netanyahu is I don’t believe Blair’s actions were driven by an ideological wish to ethnically cleanse a people.
As I mentioned, my reasoning it as based on his domestic record through his premiership and yes if we prioritise Iraq instead he would be near the worst. He 100% should be held accountable for lying to parliament and his likely war crimes (but won’t be).
The way he’s different to Netanyahu is I don’t believe Blair’s actions were driven by an ideological wish to ethnically cleanse a people.
But I’m not sure you can separate the two imo. His domestic record includes the death and maiming of British people, not to mention the 10’s of billions of tax payer money wasted on funding his wars.
I guess that’s a fair point re ideology, but regardless ultimately he led to the death of more people than in Gaza, and we are still seeing the effects of those wars today. The resulting power vacuum saw the rise of ISIS, and today Iraq is a base for Iranian proxy groups to launch attacks.
Apologies for sending the thread off piste, I just always struggle when people overlook such bloodshed. I mean Stalin did a lot for socialism in Russia, if you ignore the millions of deaths.
But I’m not sure you can separate the two imo. His domestic record includes the death and maiming of British people, not to mention the 10’s of billions of tax payer money wasted on funding his wars.
I guess that’s a fair point re ideology, but regardless ultimately he led to the death of more people than in Gaza, and we are still seeing the effects of those wars today. The resulting power vacuum saw the rise of ISIS, and today Iraq is a base for Iranian proxy groups to launch attacks.
Apologies for sending the thread off piste, I just always struggle when people overlook such bloodshed. I mean Stalin did a lot for socialism in Russia, if you ignore the millions of deaths.
[Post edited 23 Oct 9:26]
The Nazis had very stylish outfits.....
On the Blair point, I refused to vote Labour for about a decade after those wars.
I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun.
I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
Starmer has to be up there. If we just talk 21st Century, I’m going, from worst to best although highly subjective of course:
1. Cameron. Referendum madness and entertaining Osborne’s austerity plan to impoverish the nation. A hapless and useful idiot for the forces that have worked against the people of the UK ever since. Pretty much every ailment inflicting the UK (bar COVID impacts) can be traced back to his decisions. 2. Johnson. A liar and a charlatan in power at the worst possible time of a global pandemic. Rode his populist bullshit into office while trampling over the rights and dignity of the rest of us. A lazy con man totally unsuited to office. 3. Starmer. A political simpleton unable to develop a coherent policy position and wasted 2 years of a huge majority that we didn’t have time for him to waste. 4. Truss. lol. Not in power long enough to cause too much damage, except for those needing a new mortgage deal during or after her brief tenure. Delusional and way out of her depth. 5. Sunak. Bless him, tried hard. Inoffensive and equally as ineffective. On a hiding to nothing because Johnson and Truss had f***ed the Tories by then. 6. May. Hampered by ideological arseholes in her party, but did her best unconvincingly to limit the damage caused by Cameron. Should be given more credit than she gets for at least trying. 7. Burnham. Jury still out. Not Starmer, so that in itself earns him a few places on the list. Some positive early sign, but also a few worrying ones. Needs to be braver and shape the narrative/our future and not capitulate to lobbyists like Starmer did. 8. Brown - lacked charisma and the political reach/connection of Blair, but excellent response to the banking crisis of 2008. Unfortunately his approach to regulation of the banking sector left us more vulnerable to the crisis, so swing and roundabouts. 9. Bliar, er sorry I mean Blair. Strongest domestic record of any PM this Century. Oversaw an era of renewal, poverty reduction, improvement of public services the envy of the world, and united the country. Foreign affairs another matter and many believe he needs to be in The Hague over his Iraq dealings. Also lumbered the NHS with long-term shackles of privately financed debt. Could easily be number 3 on the list, but I’ve given weight to his unsurpassed domestic record.
(Edit- sorry, lol. I meant 21st Century and have now added Brown/Blair)
[Post edited 22 Oct 20:21]
Of the three Labour PMs, only Brown didn't cause me to resign from the Labour Party.
And in the case of Blair, it wasn't the Iraq War that was my primary motive, which was that the Labour Party had moved to the right of the Lib Dems under Charles Kennedy: not that I joined the Lib Dems.
And to his credit, Kennedy voted against the formation of the Cameron–Clegg coalition.
But I’m not sure you can separate the two imo. His domestic record includes the death and maiming of British people, not to mention the 10’s of billions of tax payer money wasted on funding his wars.
I guess that’s a fair point re ideology, but regardless ultimately he led to the death of more people than in Gaza, and we are still seeing the effects of those wars today. The resulting power vacuum saw the rise of ISIS, and today Iraq is a base for Iranian proxy groups to launch attacks.
Apologies for sending the thread off piste, I just always struggle when people overlook such bloodshed. I mean Stalin did a lot for socialism in Russia, if you ignore the millions of deaths.
[Post edited 23 Oct 9:26]
The lack of accountability for the bloodshed and devastation sickens me to be honest. The blatant dishonesty without consequence led British politics down the path that gave us Johnson and Farage in my opinion.
It makes my blood boil seeing Alistair Campbell sitting there with Rory Stuart passing judgement on the morality of other politicians, as if he has any moral authority on anything.
A thread with the title "France is lost" Nine pages. A number of musical replies. And yet nobody has posted this ...
Site's gone.
I suppose another way of losing oneself in France would be to read the 4,125 pages of Proust's In Search of Lost Time (French: À la recherche du temps perdu).
I managed the first volume last year but it certainly is no easy read, and I felt I needed a break before I attempted the second volume, assuming I ever do.
The lack of accountability for the bloodshed and devastation sickens me to be honest. The blatant dishonesty without consequence led British politics down the path that gave us Johnson and Farage in my opinion.
It makes my blood boil seeing Alistair Campbell sitting there with Rory Stuart passing judgement on the morality of other politicians, as if he has any moral authority on anything.
A real low, and comparable to the sacking of Olly Robbins, was the hounding of the BBC (Greg Dyke resigned) and David Kelly because of a BBC report which correctly alleged that the dossier had been sexed up.
There is a very authoritarian streak in the right of the Labour Party.
I suppose another way of losing oneself in France would be to read the 4,125 pages of Proust's In Search of Lost Time (French: À la recherche du temps perdu).
I managed the first volume last year but it certainly is no easy read, and I felt I needed a break before I attempted the second volume, assuming I ever do.
[Post edited 23 Oct 10:34]
If you complete the Proust epic bore you have my full and undying admiration. I managed a chapter.
Would be a shame for another decent poster to be driven off by the usual suspects. I find the ignore function serves a good purpose. You can still smell them but you can no longer see them.
I've been proper zen since div listing 5-6 of them.
I resisted for so long but it really does fix the forum. They stay in touch by giving me down votes. It's perfect. Like that distant cousin you exchange cards with at Christmas but don't think about for the rest of the year.
I suppose another way of losing oneself in France would be to read the 4,125 pages of Proust's In Search of Lost Time (French: À la recherche du temps perdu).
I managed the first volume last year but it certainly is no easy read, and I felt I needed a break before I attempted the second volume, assuming I ever do.
[Post edited 23 Oct 10:34]
You managed an entire volume!?
"Chapeau", as Marcel himself might have said.
"Proust in his first book wrote about, wrote about ...."
I've been proper zen since div listing 5-6 of them.
I resisted for so long but it really does fix the forum. They stay in touch by giving me down votes. It's perfect. Like that distant cousin you exchange cards with at Christmas but don't think about for the rest of the year.
I am aware I am one of them but I will just point out that all this really does is increase your already quite substantial echo chamber.
Each to their own I guess though. You can carry on slapping each others backs about how clever you are without ever having to really engage or have your views challenged and possibly disproven.
I am aware I am one of them but I will just point out that all this really does is increase your already quite substantial echo chamber.
Each to their own I guess though. You can carry on slapping each others backs about how clever you are without ever having to really engage or have your views challenged and possibly disproven.
SB
[Post edited 23 Oct 16:55]
Imagine being so brittle and unsure of yourself that a bit of pushback results in jamming your fingers in your ears and shouting ‘La la la la I can’t hear you.’
Sometimes I giggle about the frothing lunatic who’s put me on ignore and now has to constantly log out to see what I’ve said. Beneath that counterfeit persona lurks the same pitifully desperate egomaniac.
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