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Recorded 1 year after the French student riots, protests and general strike. Plus ca change. Away from the cities, France still is beautiful thankfully.
I am not objective, almost by definition. This is a political discussion. I recognise my subjectivity.
On the model, the very essence of science is to question the data, the variables modelled, and the fit. By not questioning it, you are not being scientific. The UK's independent Office for Statistics Regulation formally reprimanded the Inquiry for presenting that 23,000 figure as a certainty, precisely because it hid the model's massive 95% margin of error (which actually projected anywhere from 5,900 to 33,100 deaths).
I assume you have strong modelling credentials, so hopefully you recognise that looking at those margins and data interactions is basic scientific literacy.
I am glad Boris' tenure was short and is over.
“The UK's independent Office for Statistics Regulation formally reprimanded the Inquiry for presenting that 23,000 figure as a certainty, precisely because it hid the model's massive 95% margin of error (which actually projected anywhere from 5,900 to 33,100 deaths). ”
Not true. I already posted the letter. They criticised the language of the summary only and did not dispute the Inquiry findings.
But glad we got there, you are subjective. And can’t answer the simple question, who was worse than Boris.
I posted evidence that Boris lied about his role in thousands of excess deaths, as an objective factor that can be used to judge competency and damage.
Since then you have deflected, and avoided that question and on a couple of occasions, without presenting any relevant credentials yourself questioning if I have relevant experience. You must be new here.
Edit as I’ve just seen your edit. This is what you posted on this thread about Belstead. “Quoting 1984 whilst continually promoting right wing tweets is quite the move”. He wasn’t posting right right wing tweets on my thread. And this “ Also an interesting quote to post given you've posted lies and misinformation on the forum ever since your return”. There was no need to highjack it to have a pop at him from another thread.
And to save replying to your latest “non engagement” with me. It’s was ten days of posting history with one other post from before your break which coincided with board harmony. It’s not a spreadsheet. It’s a function of the board and takes literally second to repost.
[Post edited 21 Oct 9:13]
"You have a complete lack of self awareness."
Oh Jesus, does anyone know where to get a decent irony meter? Mine just keep breaking over and over, I need to fine some better quality ones.
It was the “i have work to do” that made me chuckle.
Did you avatar used to be a lego cleaner figure or am I mixing you up with somebody else? You'll have to forgive me but I don't recognise your username so not sure if we have engaged before.
Anyhooooo, I actually decided to chuck work and went to the gym instead, as I was working off the excesses after dining with friends last night. The perks of being your own boss.
It's also a difficult thread to follow in the past few pages as it appears some of those people described in my signature have turned up which makes it unreadable. I know who you are replying to but I have no idea what they are saying.
But you raised a fair point earlier. This is an open forum and people are free to post what they want. But it's bad manners to constantly highjack threads to drag up rows with posters you dislike. Much better to start one of your own to do that.
But in the interests of consistency you should also critique people who demand other posters do not engage with them. It's a free for all as you say.
[Post edited 21 Oct 15:25]
Antisemites, Jew haters and crashing bores will be put on ignore.
Leaving aside the fact that most of the people in the footage are white, effectively describing all people of Arab descent who took part in the protests as Islamist is in my view Islamophobic.
Such views tap into the Great Replacement Theory, and whilst to be expected of a former Israeli spokesman, it it disappointing to see them amplified by Simon Schama.
And such views mirror those of Trump who recently posted this on Truth Social.
"What's happening in France is nothing less than out-of-control mass migration. This isn't about schools, this is about Islam wanting to take over a once great Country!"
From the Guardian.
Meanwhile, French president Emmanuel Macron blasted “unacceptable” and “stupid” comments on the protests and riots in France from foreign leaders, accusing them of “campaigning at our expense.”
Speaking to reporters from Doha, visibly annoyed Macron said he was frustrated by “visible manipulation of information” about the events in France, “that were unacceptable and stupid from many quarters, including from foreign leaders.”
“For instance, we saw images generated by artificial intelligence depicting scenes that never actually occurred in France. Some people even claimed that we had been overrun by hordes of migrants and Islamists – which is completely false.”
(US president Donald Trump explicitly suggested that repeatedly, and several EU leaders sort of said similar things, linking the protests with migration, including Hungary’s Péter Magyar and Poland’s Donald Tusk.)
Macron said he was particularly annoyed by political leaders “whether in our own region or on the other side of the Atlantic, gullibly repeating claims generated by AI or echoing narratives that certain circles wish to propagate … it is clear that they are campaigning at our expense.”
Meanwhile, French president Emmanuel Macron blasted “unacceptable” and “stupid” comments on the protests and riots in France from foreign leaders, accusing them of “campaigning at our expense.”
Speaking to reporters from Doha, visibly annoyed Macron said he was frustrated by “visible manipulation of information” about the events in France, “that were unacceptable and stupid from many quarters, including from foreign leaders.”
“For instance, we saw images generated by artificial intelligence depicting scenes that never actually occurred in France. Some people even claimed that we had been overrun by hordes of migrants and Islamists – which is completely false.”
(US president Donald Trump explicitly suggested that repeatedly, and several EU leaders sort of said similar things, linking the protests with migration, including Hungary’s Péter Magyar and Poland’s Donald Tusk.)
Macron said he was particularly annoyed by political leaders “whether in our own region or on the other side of the Atlantic, gullibly repeating claims generated by AI or echoing narratives that certain circles wish to propagate … it is clear that they are campaigning at our expense.”
[Post edited 21 Oct 15:07]
I like it DJR! Pulling the topic back to the OP. Thanks for posting.
I personally haven't commented on the Islamist/migrant link yet. I am not sure it is that relevant in aggregate, but the issues of integration are still very present in Marseille, Paris and Lyon in particular.
Anyway, I am still trying to think of a PM worse than Boris in order to reply to another post. I am sure there is one somewhere in history.
Anthony Eden, Tony Blair and Boris were proposed by AI as the biggest liars.
I think Lord Frederick North is my current option though.
"Much of the news coverage in recent days has focused on the violence that played out on the fringes of the protests in France and Italy.
The protests themselves, however, point to what seems to be a diverse response to a common crisis: the growing perception, particularly among younger generations, that governments are unable, or unwilling, to deliver when it comes to affordable housing, social equality and robust public services.
“This is the most powerful warning from Europe’s angry youth today, in France and across the continent,” the policy analyst Alberto Alemanno said.
The framing stands in sharp contrast to the many right wing and far-right voices who have sought to exploit the violence in France and Italy, linking it without evidence to migration while brushing over protesters’ wider demands."
"Back again to Greece where tens of thousands of students have joined the burgeoning youth movement demanding better education better prospects amid an ever worsening cost of living crisis in the Mediterranean EU member.
Singing French partisan songs, Greek students participating in the Athens rally, said the French protests were not only admirable but had been an inspiration.
“No one is doubting their message or concerns, even if [media] coverage is mostly focused on the violence,” said Fotini, enrolled at a university in the capital.
“We’re here to say we’re with French youth. Our parents endured so many hardships, so much sacrifice, and they feel really upset and enraged that we, too, have so few prospects. A lot of us are still forced to live with our families, even after we graduate, because the cost of living and house rents are so high.”
The protests, which included a one-day ‘solidarity ‘ strike by teachers, has seen students erect tents infront of the Greek parliament to protest against the soaring costs of education."
Of course, there are similar issues for the younger generations in this country, but we're a placid lot, for better or worse.
"Much of the news coverage in recent days has focused on the violence that played out on the fringes of the protests in France and Italy.
The protests themselves, however, point to what seems to be a diverse response to a common crisis: the growing perception, particularly among younger generations, that governments are unable, or unwilling, to deliver when it comes to affordable housing, social equality and robust public services.
“This is the most powerful warning from Europe’s angry youth today, in France and across the continent,” the policy analyst Alberto Alemanno said.
The framing stands in sharp contrast to the many right wing and far-right voices who have sought to exploit the violence in France and Italy, linking it without evidence to migration while brushing over protesters’ wider demands."
"Back again to Greece where tens of thousands of students have joined the burgeoning youth movement demanding better education better prospects amid an ever worsening cost of living crisis in the Mediterranean EU member.
Singing French partisan songs, Greek students participating in the Athens rally, said the French protests were not only admirable but had been an inspiration.
“No one is doubting their message or concerns, even if [media] coverage is mostly focused on the violence,” said Fotini, enrolled at a university in the capital.
“We’re here to say we’re with French youth. Our parents endured so many hardships, so much sacrifice, and they feel really upset and enraged that we, too, have so few prospects. A lot of us are still forced to live with our families, even after we graduate, because the cost of living and house rents are so high.”
The protests, which included a one-day ‘solidarity ‘ strike by teachers, has seen students erect tents infront of the Greek parliament to protest against the soaring costs of education."
Of course, there are similar issues for the younger generations in this country, but we're a placid lot, for better or worse.
[Post edited 21 Oct 15:40]
Do you not feel the Guardian is being a little biased/rose tinted with that synopsis?
Violent destruction of many public sites and building has taken place over the last week. It's important not to play that down. The pivot between peaceful protest and then violent looting does highlight the fracturing of society, part of that is on ethnic grounds.
I have read a couple of good takes on this in Le Figaro this week. They are behind paywall, but you may have means to read:
Do you not feel the Guardian is being a little biased/rose tinted with that synopsis?
Violent destruction of many public sites and building has taken place over the last week. It's important not to play that down. The pivot between peaceful protest and then violent looting does highlight the fracturing of society, part of that is on ethnic grounds.
I have read a couple of good takes on this in Le Figaro this week. They are behind paywall, but you may have means to read:
I don't think the article or I were excusing the violence or confining things to France, only pointing out that things seem much more difficult for the younger generation everywhere, and certainly in contrast to when I was growing up.
But of course, the reaction will vary from country to country, and France has a long history of violent protest.
I can't access the article but may be able to access the paper itself on Press Reader.
I like it DJR! Pulling the topic back to the OP. Thanks for posting.
I personally haven't commented on the Islamist/migrant link yet. I am not sure it is that relevant in aggregate, but the issues of integration are still very present in Marseille, Paris and Lyon in particular.
Anyway, I am still trying to think of a PM worse than Boris in order to reply to another post. I am sure there is one somewhere in history.
Anthony Eden, Tony Blair and Boris were proposed by AI as the biggest liars.
I think Lord Frederick North is my current option though.
"I personally haven't commented on the Islamist/migrant link yet. I am not sure it is that relevant in aggregate, but the issues of integration are still very present in Marseille, Paris and Lyon in particular."
Interesting paragraph, so you're not saying it is or isn't an Islamist/antisemite/hard left insurrection as GB has implied but other unspecified immigrant related issues do exist. The power of innuendo!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
"I personally haven't commented on the Islamist/migrant link yet. I am not sure it is that relevant in aggregate, but the issues of integration are still very present in Marseille, Paris and Lyon in particular."
Interesting paragraph, so you're not saying it is or isn't an Islamist/antisemite/hard left insurrection as GB has implied but other unspecified immigrant related issues do exist. The power of innuendo!
It's so tiresome having to continually respond to this sort of stuff.
You're attributing an implication to me that I haven't made. I explicitly said I wasn't sure the Islamist/migrant link was relevant in aggregate. Separately, I noted that integration remains an issue in certain French cities. Those are distinct points, and acknowledging the latter doesn't establish or imply the former.
I spend a lot of time in France, and my partner is French. I'm familiar with the fact that integration can involve significant social problems, and I don't think these issues should be off limits for open discussion. Acknowledging that such problems exist is not the same as making the argument you're attributing to me.
Are you joining in the pile on of Balcombe and claiming he is a banned returnee under a new name? Isn’t this the sort of sniping and outing that Phil has asked people not to do? That’s Belstead and now Balcombe you’ve done this to on my thread. Pure diversion rather than engagement.
Thanks once again for highjacking this thread to settle scores. No doubt when I return from work this thread will have been deleted. Eat, sleep, rave, repeat.
Edit. Anyway, some humour to lighten the mood.
[Post edited 21 Oct 8:22]
The lack of self awareness is incredible.
Sniping is your whole tiresome m.o. on here.
You started a thread last week with the sole purpose of having a pop at Dolly, even though you’ve supposedly got him and everyone else who challenges you, on ignore.
For clarity, that’s the same poster you previously got banned for taunting.
Extremely hypocritical, pompously having a pop at others and accusing them of the very thing on here, that you hungrily gorge on.
Sometimes I giggle about the frothing lunatic who’s put me on ignore and now has to constantly log out to see what I’ve said. Beneath that counterfeit persona lurks the same pitifully desperate egomaniac.
It's so tiresome having to continually respond to this sort of stuff.
You're attributing an implication to me that I haven't made. I explicitly said I wasn't sure the Islamist/migrant link was relevant in aggregate. Separately, I noted that integration remains an issue in certain French cities. Those are distinct points, and acknowledging the latter doesn't establish or imply the former.
I spend a lot of time in France, and my partner is French. I'm familiar with the fact that integration can involve significant social problems, and I don't think these issues should be off limits for open discussion. Acknowledging that such problems exist is not the same as making the argument you're attributing to me.
But of course, you know all that.
No, what you said was you weren't sure it was "that" relevant....so maybe just a little bit? I'll stick my neck out here and say it wasn’t and isn't an Islamist/antisemite insurrection. Try disagreeing a bit more with those whose team you appear to bat for, it's liberating believe me!
Edit Glasgow's ability to uppie posts when he can't see what you're replying to is admirable don't you think...
[Post edited 21 Oct 20:08]
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
No, what you said was you weren't sure it was "that" relevant....so maybe just a little bit? I'll stick my neck out here and say it wasn’t and isn't an Islamist/antisemite insurrection. Try disagreeing a bit more with those whose team you appear to bat for, it's liberating believe me!
Edit Glasgow's ability to uppie posts when he can't see what you're replying to is admirable don't you think...
[Post edited 21 Oct 20:08]
Ah, the usual accusation of disingenuousness, followed by an explanation of what I really meant and which political team I apparently belong to.
Trust me, I know what I think rather better than you do. “I'm not sure it was that relevant” means precisely what it says, not whatever hidden position you seem determined to attribute to me.
And thank you for the advice about independent thought. There's a certain irony in being lectured about it by someone who's already decided what I think.
I don't have a team here. I discuss issues openly with all but about 4 posters.
I think I've been posting for 4 months, but I think I'm done.
Ah, the usual accusation of disingenuousness, followed by an explanation of what I really meant and which political team I apparently belong to.
Trust me, I know what I think rather better than you do. “I'm not sure it was that relevant” means precisely what it says, not whatever hidden position you seem determined to attribute to me.
And thank you for the advice about independent thought. There's a certain irony in being lectured about it by someone who's already decided what I think.
I don't have a team here. I discuss issues openly with all but about 4 posters.
I think I've been posting for 4 months, but I think I'm done.
Would be a shame for another decent poster to be driven off by the usual suspects. I find the ignore function serves a good purpose. You can still smell them but you can no longer see them.
Antisemites, Jew haters and crashing bores will be put on ignore.
Would be a shame for another decent poster to be driven off by the usual suspects. I find the ignore function serves a good purpose. You can still smell them but you can no longer see them.
Ah, the usual accusation of disingenuousness, followed by an explanation of what I really meant and which political team I apparently belong to.
Trust me, I know what I think rather better than you do. “I'm not sure it was that relevant” means precisely what it says, not whatever hidden position you seem determined to attribute to me.
And thank you for the advice about independent thought. There's a certain irony in being lectured about it by someone who's already decided what I think.
I don't have a team here. I discuss issues openly with all but about 4 posters.
I think I've been posting for 4 months, but I think I'm done.
Please don’t go. You’re one of the few on here that can show the cartel up for what they are.
Ah, the usual accusation of disingenuousness, followed by an explanation of what I really meant and which political team I apparently belong to.
Trust me, I know what I think rather better than you do. “I'm not sure it was that relevant” means precisely what it says, not whatever hidden position you seem determined to attribute to me.
And thank you for the advice about independent thought. There's a certain irony in being lectured about it by someone who's already decided what I think.
I don't have a team here. I discuss issues openly with all but about 4 posters.
I think I've been posting for 4 months, but I think I'm done.
....if you left of your own accord due to being relentlessly targeted by a handful of posters.
Obviously you'll eventually get banned for disagreeing with them, but at least wait for the inevitable!
Would be a shame for another decent poster to be driven off by the usual suspects. I find the ignore function serves a good purpose. You can still smell them but you can no longer see them.
*logs back off*
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Ah, the usual accusation of disingenuousness, followed by an explanation of what I really meant and which political team I apparently belong to.
Trust me, I know what I think rather better than you do. “I'm not sure it was that relevant” means precisely what it says, not whatever hidden position you seem determined to attribute to me.
And thank you for the advice about independent thought. There's a certain irony in being lectured about it by someone who's already decided what I think.
I don't have a team here. I discuss issues openly with all but about 4 posters.
I think I've been posting for 4 months, but I think I'm done.
‘I think I’m done’
I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest you’ve actually still got far more wisdom you’re itching to impart and have no inclination whatsoever to abandon it at just the 4 months.
Surely the other suspects that aren’t THE usual suspects can offer you some sort of incentive and counselling to prolong your stay?
[Post edited 21 Oct 21:31]
Sometimes I giggle about the frothing lunatic who’s put me on ignore and now has to constantly log out to see what I’ve said. Beneath that counterfeit persona lurks the same pitifully desperate egomaniac.
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