| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it 17:53 - Oct 31 with 3028 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
We MUST get in the loan market or whatever needs to happen in January regarding the goalkeeper department. Another away game, another performance in the 5s according to the stats. Hardly the only one to blame but when you have one job compared to the CBs, who are constantly in the thick of it, it’s frustrating to say the least! Better required.
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 19:28 - Oct 31 with 837 views | ernie |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 19:23 - Oct 31 by jasondozzell |
What did you make of his save at the end against Fulham? |
No point going on about that now, today is what matters. On the overall balance Walton isn’t good enough and a top class keeper would make the difference between staying up and going down. Mind you, Hull’s goalie doesn’t look as great now as many were saying a few weeks ago. I really don’t think there is going to be an abundance of top keepers who are going to join a newly promoted side unless you unearth a real gem. |  | | |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 19:29 - Oct 31 with 848 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 19:23 - Oct 31 by jasondozzell |
What did you make of his save at the end against Fulham? |
He’s a goalkeeper and threw a leg out at a ball hit at him! Important save of course but he’s genuinely just an average EFL keeper, as is evident. Not his fault but it’s a problem, as we are seeing. | |
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 13:48 - Nov 1 with 681 views | grow_our_own |
FK was hard and in the corner. I think would have been a bit of a worldie save. I put it on a par with Scherpen's "failure" to save the two at Palace. But Walton has otherwise been better than Scherpen.
1. Utd 5th: Scherpen off his line, didn't get there, lobbed.
2. Liv 1st: near post hand-height. Through his hands.
3. Liv 2nd: Off his line, no-mans-land.
Walton's "mistake" yesterday wasn't that degree of error. Qualitatively, Walton's kicking has been better than Scherpen's too. True, Walton's pass to Nunez vs Arsenal in the Carabou was risky, but Nunez got the first touch on it. Compare that to Scherpen passing straight to Wharton centrally just outside the box at Palace, gifting him a goal which he fluffed.
Walton still easily better than Scherpen based on this season's performances.
FK yesterday was 100% the fault of Florentino. Gifted possession on the half-way line, then gave away FK in feeble attempt to make amends. Despite his goal yesterday, we've been carrying him the last three matches. [Post edited 1 Nov 13:52]
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 13:56 - Nov 1 with 660 views | FrimleyBlue |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 13:48 - Nov 1 by grow_our_own |
FK was hard and in the corner. I think would have been a bit of a worldie save. I put it on a par with Scherpen's "failure" to save the two at Palace. But Walton has otherwise been better than Scherpen.
1. Utd 5th: Scherpen off his line, didn't get there, lobbed.
2. Liv 1st: near post hand-height. Through his hands.
3. Liv 2nd: Off his line, no-mans-land.
Walton's "mistake" yesterday wasn't that degree of error. Qualitatively, Walton's kicking has been better than Scherpen's too. True, Walton's pass to Nunez vs Arsenal in the Carabou was risky, but Nunez got the first touch on it. Compare that to Scherpen passing straight to Wharton centrally just outside the box at Palace, gifting him a goal which he fluffed.
Walton still easily better than Scherpen based on this season's performances.
FK yesterday was 100% the fault of Florentino. Gifted possession on the half-way line, then gave away FK in feeble attempt to make amends. Despite his goal yesterday, we've been carrying him the last three matches. [Post edited 1 Nov 13:52]
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Wasnt even in the corner. Behave. It literally went the only place it could have gone.
Btw. On waltons kicking. Hes played far far more long balls than scherpen. With minimal accuracy. Why is it that first muric and then scherpen we asked them to play more suicidal short balls compared to palmer and now walton who have freedom to go long.
Walton at fault for 3 of arsenals goals
Should have done better with others too
Flaps at crosses or stands on goaline watching balls flap over the 6 yard box
Walton in now way has been better. In fact its worse. In all aspects.
Is scherpen the answer. Who knows. But the answer isnt walton. |  |
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 13:57 - Nov 1 with 656 views | Dubtractor |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 13:48 - Nov 1 by grow_our_own |
FK was hard and in the corner. I think would have been a bit of a worldie save. I put it on a par with Scherpen's "failure" to save the two at Palace. But Walton has otherwise been better than Scherpen.
1. Utd 5th: Scherpen off his line, didn't get there, lobbed.
2. Liv 1st: near post hand-height. Through his hands.
3. Liv 2nd: Off his line, no-mans-land.
Walton's "mistake" yesterday wasn't that degree of error. Qualitatively, Walton's kicking has been better than Scherpen's too. True, Walton's pass to Nunez vs Arsenal in the Carabou was risky, but Nunez got the first touch on it. Compare that to Scherpen passing straight to Wharton centrally just outside the box at Palace, gifting him a goal which he fluffed.
Walton still easily better than Scherpen based on this season's performances.
FK yesterday was 100% the fault of Florentino. Gifted possession on the half-way line, then gave away FK in feeble attempt to make amends. Despite his goal yesterday, we've been carrying him the last three matches. [Post edited 1 Nov 13:52]
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Florentino was definitely poor in giving away possession in the lead up to that free kick - wanted way more time than you get at this level.
O'Shea and Walton are getting a lot of the blame for the goals, and their role was clearly the most problematic, but the various discussions do highlight that it really isn't about one error by one player.
We had a really ropey spell for 20 minutes after half time, and that second goal was always coming, ideally GON should have made changes before it did. |  |
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 14:25 - Nov 1 with 601 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 13:48 - Nov 1 by grow_our_own |
FK was hard and in the corner. I think would have been a bit of a worldie save. I put it on a par with Scherpen's "failure" to save the two at Palace. But Walton has otherwise been better than Scherpen.
1. Utd 5th: Scherpen off his line, didn't get there, lobbed.
2. Liv 1st: near post hand-height. Through his hands.
3. Liv 2nd: Off his line, no-mans-land.
Walton's "mistake" yesterday wasn't that degree of error. Qualitatively, Walton's kicking has been better than Scherpen's too. True, Walton's pass to Nunez vs Arsenal in the Carabou was risky, but Nunez got the first touch on it. Compare that to Scherpen passing straight to Wharton centrally just outside the box at Palace, gifting him a goal which he fluffed.
Walton still easily better than Scherpen based on this season's performances.
FK yesterday was 100% the fault of Florentino. Gifted possession on the half-way line, then gave away FK in feeble attempt to make amends. Despite his goal yesterday, we've been carrying him the last three matches. [Post edited 1 Nov 13:52]
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"Walton still easily better than Scherpen based on this season's performances.'
This is just not true. Shots saved % equal, and Scherpen edges several other stats. Goalkeeping is also somewhat about the defence in front of you, and the opposition. e.g. Scherpen faced 25 shots on target in 4 games, to Walton's 20 in 5.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/k
If you take a look at it dispassionately, there is no way to claim Walton is 'easily better'. | | | |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 14:46 - Nov 1 with 575 views | mutters |
Fook me people love sticking the boot in don't they. |  |
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 15:18 - Nov 1 with 537 views | JakeITFC |
We play better football with him in the side, really comfortable going back to him to restart possession. Scherpen gets better every game he doesn’t play but his distribution was calamitous. |  | | |
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 15:33 - Nov 1 with 527 views | grow_our_own |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 14:25 - Nov 1 by SuffolkPunchFC |
"Walton still easily better than Scherpen based on this season's performances.'
This is just not true. Shots saved % equal, and Scherpen edges several other stats. Goalkeeping is also somewhat about the defence in front of you, and the opposition. e.g. Scherpen faced 25 shots on target in 4 games, to Walton's 20 in 5.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/k
If you take a look at it dispassionately, there is no way to claim Walton is 'easily better'. |
Lies, damned lies, and statistics. The footy stats on GKs are dodgy. After the Liverpool and Man Utd games, when you and I both saw Scherpen make errors, they reported zero goalkeeping errors leading to a goal.
For what it's worth, Fotmob say Scherpen & Walton both have 60% save ratio (contradicting Squawka), but Walton has conceded fewer having played more games:
One stat that can't be corrupted is goals conceded per 90. Scherpen is the worst in the Premier League at 2.5 goals per game: https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/l
 [Post edited 1 Nov 15:36]
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 15:40 - Nov 1 with 504 views | franz_tyson |
Does anyone know why Scherpen was dropped. There could have been a good conversation between the keeper and GON/coaches where they took him out to work on certain things. His footwork and kicking were poor. Decision-making as well looked iffy. Could be he'll return if he's worked on certain parts of his game.
Walton is better with the kicking side of the game and has at least got experience with O'Shea, Greaves and Davis. If Scherpen shows the right attitude ... who says he won't get another chance.
I was just always concerned about his height. Could be he's as agile as an eel and his height doesn't affect that part of his game. He did look dodgy, though. | | | |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 15:50 - Nov 1 with 489 views | grow_our_own |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 15:38 - Nov 1 by FrimleyBlue |
You mean the season starting gk conceded more goals during a spell where oshea was RB. Didnt have palacios starting games to take the ball from him either and the team was still finding its feet together |
But you're also citing that Scherpen saves more shots per 90, so is the better keeper. Pick a lane. Either Scherpen played behind a worse defence, so can't be blamed for conceding more, or Scherpen played behind a worse defence, so the "saves per 90" you quoted earlier is meaningless stat-babble.
Personally, I'd say the truth is "saves per 90" is nonsense bc it's tenuously related to the goalkeeper. It's true that Scherpen wasn't helped by playing behind a defence containing Jacob Greaves. But he influenced being top conceder in the Prem by being kamikazee off his line and failing to save low shots. [Post edited 1 Nov 15:52]
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 16:09 - Nov 1 with 456 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 15:33 - Nov 1 by grow_our_own |
Lies, damned lies, and statistics. The footy stats on GKs are dodgy. After the Liverpool and Man Utd games, when you and I both saw Scherpen make errors, they reported zero goalkeeping errors leading to a goal.
For what it's worth, Fotmob say Scherpen & Walton both have 60% save ratio (contradicting Squawka), but Walton has conceded fewer having played more games:
One stat that can't be corrupted is goals conceded per 90. Scherpen is the worst in the Premier League at 2.5 goals per game: https://www.fotmob.com/en-GB/l
[Post edited 1 Nov 15:36]
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You're not understanding 'mistakes leading to goals' stat then. Muric, for example, clearly made mistakes that led to goals - for example mis-control with his feet, or a pass out that is intercepted / goes to an opposition player.
If a poor attempt at a save, poor positioning, etc, etc counted as a 'mistake leading to a goal' for 'keepers, then all keepers would have many goals counting to that stat.
No stat is corrupted - only interpreted. Even your goals conceded per 90 needs context, which it doesn't have in a table like that. For example, how many on target shots were there, and other factors. If I 'keeper faces zero shots on target, their shots conceded per 90 will be excellent.
No single stat tells the entire story, and you need to add context. Blended stats give a better picture - but still involve interpretation.
Arguably the best stat is an independent (that is not being partisan) rating of the players over all games they played. [Post edited 1 Nov 16:11]
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 16:09 - Nov 1 with 456 views | Vic |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 19:22 - Oct 31 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
The problem is Walton is poor at this level, even the first his positioning is crap and just left him a tap in at near post.
The second we know what happened. |
Show us the stats JJJJ because im just not getting this criticism of Walton.
Sure he could have done better on the free kick, but i dont see he's been responsible for too many goals so far. And his kicking has massively improved and not been a problem.
What was i explicitly yesterday was DOS not coming across to thier attacker for the first goal. Just never, ever seen anything like that. Unbelievable. He must have had a brain freeze. But do we drop him for that? No way we should. And nor should we drop Walton. He's not the only prem keeper that makes mistakes. |  |
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 16:23 - Nov 1 with 430 views | FrimleyBlue |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 16:09 - Nov 1 by Vic |
Show us the stats JJJJ because im just not getting this criticism of Walton.
Sure he could have done better on the free kick, but i dont see he's been responsible for too many goals so far. And his kicking has massively improved and not been a problem.
What was i explicitly yesterday was DOS not coming across to thier attacker for the first goal. Just never, ever seen anything like that. Unbelievable. He must have had a brain freeze. But do we drop him for that? No way we should. And nor should we drop Walton. He's not the only prem keeper that makes mistakes. |
Why do you need stats out of interest?
Surely watching him you can see how out of his depth he is at this level
He rarely gets anywhere to shots that arent directly at him. Doesnt claim crosses. Absolutely nowhere during corners. What stats do you need for that? | |
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 16:31 - Nov 1 with 413 views | Vic |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 16:23 - Nov 1 by FrimleyBlue |
Why do you need stats out of interest?
Surely watching him you can see how out of his depth he is at this level
He rarely gets anywhere to shots that arent directly at him. Doesnt claim crosses. Absolutely nowhere during corners. What stats do you need for that? |
Strange reply Frimmers!
JJJJ is saying how poor Walton is. I've watched several game (on TV) and have t thought he's looked that bad. Sure he's made some mistakes, so I'm interested to see how he compares to other Prem keepers. | |
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 18:00 - Nov 1 with 355 views | J2BLUE |
The fans need to back our keepers. It's been an unsettled position for years.
I cannot believe some have written Scherpen off already. He's played 4 games for us and was very highly rated. We're going to make it increasingly difficult for the club to sign keepers if we're going to turn on them so early.
Not aimed at the OP but there are a growing number on here who want the keeper dropped every time there is a mistake. That is not how you manage players. It's a way to destroy the confidence of both keepers. |  | | |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 18:11 - Nov 1 with 328 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 18:00 - Nov 1 by J2BLUE |
The fans need to back our keepers. It's been an unsettled position for years.
I cannot believe some have written Scherpen off already. He's played 4 games for us and was very highly rated. We're going to make it increasingly difficult for the club to sign keepers if we're going to turn on them so early.
Not aimed at the OP but there are a growing number on here who want the keeper dropped every time there is a mistake. That is not how you manage players. It's a way to destroy the confidence of both keepers. |
I don’t want Walton dropped now but I do want us to sign a goalkeeper who can play the level. Ideally in January. Walton is a slightly above average championship goalkeeper, not a top 50 in the world which is what we should be aiming for.
Scherpen has an awful lot to do on the evidence to date. This isn’t a testing ground and we’re not here to make up the numbers so no way is a GK getting more than a few games with the performances he put in. His distribution was poor, and the rest of it wasn’t great either. I’m not saying he can’t improve but I’d be surprised if we see this year as a development opportunity for such a key position.
Amazing how bad our recruitment has been in this department. It’s the only doubt I have as to whether we stay up. | | | |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 18:18 - Nov 1 with 309 views | FrimleyBlue |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 18:00 - Nov 1 by J2BLUE |
The fans need to back our keepers. It's been an unsettled position for years.
I cannot believe some have written Scherpen off already. He's played 4 games for us and was very highly rated. We're going to make it increasingly difficult for the club to sign keepers if we're going to turn on them so early.
Not aimed at the OP but there are a growing number on here who want the keeper dropped every time there is a mistake. That is not how you manage players. It's a way to destroy the confidence of both keepers. |
Id love scherpen to play and have the whole season. | |
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 18:21 - Nov 1 with 298 views | BackToRussia |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 18:11 - Nov 1 by PrideOfTheEast |
I don’t want Walton dropped now but I do want us to sign a goalkeeper who can play the level. Ideally in January. Walton is a slightly above average championship goalkeeper, not a top 50 in the world which is what we should be aiming for.
Scherpen has an awful lot to do on the evidence to date. This isn’t a testing ground and we’re not here to make up the numbers so no way is a GK getting more than a few games with the performances he put in. His distribution was poor, and the rest of it wasn’t great either. I’m not saying he can’t improve but I’d be surprised if we see this year as a development opportunity for such a key position.
Amazing how bad our recruitment has been in this department. It’s the only doubt I have as to whether we stay up. |
We got Scherpen in pretty quickly, didn't we? Seemed as tho he had been identified as the No.1 target for the position. Does seem odd that he was dropped so quickly given that and speaks to a lack of clarity in the recruitment process to me. |  |
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 18:47 - Nov 1 with 255 views | mutters |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 18:21 - Nov 1 by BackToRussia |
We got Scherpen in pretty quickly, didn't we? Seemed as tho he had been identified as the No.1 target for the position. Does seem odd that he was dropped so quickly given that and speaks to a lack of clarity in the recruitment process to me. |
There may be more to it than meets the eye or that we are being told. None of us kno a what is going on in these players life's, which is why in the absence of anything else we should show support and kindess | |
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 20:32 - Nov 1 with 187 views | HighgateBlue |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 18:00 - Nov 1 by J2BLUE |
The fans need to back our keepers. It's been an unsettled position for years.
I cannot believe some have written Scherpen off already. He's played 4 games for us and was very highly rated. We're going to make it increasingly difficult for the club to sign keepers if we're going to turn on them so early.
Not aimed at the OP but there are a growing number on here who want the keeper dropped every time there is a mistake. That is not how you manage players. It's a way to destroy the confidence of both keepers. |
Yes.
Turning on Muric because he made a few clangers was like turning on our best striker who scored plenty of goals because he also happened to miss a few sitters.
Muric had the best stats of all our keepers in the last Prem campaign, and the demand for him since showed what an absolute mess we made.
You need a really talented keeper to succeed in the Premier League, and no club's Premier League record demonstrates that better than ours. The year we tackle the Premier League with a Richard Wright in our squad is the year that we have a genuine chance of finishing in the top half. We can't ask Walton be something he's not.
Having spent so very much, it's odd that keepers haven't been prioritised. If GON thinks Scherpen is the man for the job, then we must back him for as long as that's the case. But it would seem very much not to be the case. We're making a decent fist of this season, but if we go down in 18th place with Walton having played the rest of the season, there would certainly be a big question mark over what on earth went on.
And if we're in the Premier League next season, I would rather us spend a chunky fee on a keeper than another 5 chunky fees on another 5 wingers. |  | | |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 21:55 - Nov 1 with 137 views | Ewan_Oozami |
Still think van Oevelen will prove to be the better keeper long-term if we stay up.... |  |
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| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 22:02 - Nov 1 with 123 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| If we have fully decided kjell scherpen can’t do it on 13:57 - Nov 1 by Dubtractor |
Florentino was definitely poor in giving away possession in the lead up to that free kick - wanted way more time than you get at this level.
O'Shea and Walton are getting a lot of the blame for the goals, and their role was clearly the most problematic, but the various discussions do highlight that it really isn't about one error by one player.
We had a really ropey spell for 20 minutes after half time, and that second goal was always coming, ideally GON should have made changes before it did. |
Don’t buy this argument in full, most goals you’ll be able to pick out bits and pieces here and there from outfield players and yes collectively there are multiple players that could have done better for both including conceding the free kick. Dara goes without saying for the first, awful, there’s another thread about that.
But it’s quite literally the goalkeepers job and what you sign up and also why people think it’s a rather thankless position being the last line of defense. Florentino had 49 touches in the game, Hull had 3 shots on target and scored with their first two meaningful shots on or off target.
It’s what the goalkeepers job is, saving the ball and occasionally bailing out a tiring player in front of you. Walton failed to do his job Saturday, in rather simplistic terms stopping the ball going in the goal on that free kick. Once Dara came across he also just gave the Hull lad the entire front post to tap it in.
It’s not a thread asking for him to put Scherpen back in, that will be for GON to decide but we’ll need better to stay up I think, I rather suspect in 9 or 10 games times many more will be agreeing with this once we have a greater PL sample size.
Not sure how throwing a leg out against Fulham somehow equates to failing to save or being in a much better position for 4 or so preventable goals since at City and yesterday.
I think he’s serviceable as back up for a game or two but we will lose points (I’d argue we already have) keeping him in long term. | |
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