| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit 10:56 - Jul 20 with 1146 views | Ryorry |
Not anti-footballing Argies. Spain were magnificent weren't they, only one goal conceded in the whole tournament. If we'd made the final, I very much doubt we could have beaten them.
We'll need to improve a lot if we're to get past them in 2028 - they look invincible, but then so did France up to the semis. Who are our great youngsters that could come through in 2 years' time? We need a young Kane to emerge, Might Delap have matured to become that player by then?
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:08 - Jul 20 with 1074 views | earlsgreenblue |
Agree with that, but as long as we don’t have to learn the Argie dark arts to move forward (best red of the tournament last night) & worse losers, got away with so much………… |  | | |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:14 - Jul 20 with 1060 views | homer_123 |
Honestly, and I am likely in a minority here, I'm not keen on either Spain or Argentina in terms of how they approach the game. I can appreciate both approaches but I don't like either.
Argentina are just dark art specialists.
Spain, for all that they are technically excellent, play some of the most boring football I have ever sat through. They have the ability to be and do so much more.
However, I will also acknowledge that both have knack of winning big tournaments using their respective approaches...which is more than we are capable of doing. |  |
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:24 - Jul 20 with 1015 views | You_Bloo_Right |
We need a team that can defend like Spain and attack like France (which on occasion we already do).
Add "And I'm the one to deliver that" and that's the CV ready to send to the FA.
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:32 - Jul 20 with 982 views | Deano69 |
I really don’t enjoy Spanish football based on what I have seen at the WC. Spain v Portugal was an awful game.
Superb technical ability but very little excitement or entertainment imo.
I think we would have come close were it us in the final against them.
That said, think I prefer 3rd to 2nd place. |  |
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:42 - Jul 20 with 932 views | Ryorry |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:14 - Jul 20 by homer_123 |
Honestly, and I am likely in a minority here, I'm not keen on either Spain or Argentina in terms of how they approach the game. I can appreciate both approaches but I don't like either.
Argentina are just dark art specialists.
Spain, for all that they are technically excellent, play some of the most boring football I have ever sat through. They have the ability to be and do so much more.
However, I will also acknowledge that both have knack of winning big tournaments using their respective approaches...which is more than we are capable of doing. |
Spain were hardly clinical in their finishing last night were they, could have wrapped it up a lot sooner. | |
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:46 - Jul 20 with 919 views | nrb1985 |
Not that many nations have a top striker nowadays, Norway and France maybe only.
I'm pretty sanguine about who comes after Kane. As Spain have proved, you don't need a top class goal scorer to be successful.
France were arguably at their most formidable with Giroud up front as another example.
And while we might not have beaten Spain but as we showed 2 years ago, we'd have given them a much better game than the Argies did. [Post edited 20 Jul 11:48]
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:48 - Jul 20 with 904 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:14 - Jul 20 by homer_123 |
Honestly, and I am likely in a minority here, I'm not keen on either Spain or Argentina in terms of how they approach the game. I can appreciate both approaches but I don't like either.
Argentina are just dark art specialists.
Spain, for all that they are technically excellent, play some of the most boring football I have ever sat through. They have the ability to be and do so much more.
However, I will also acknowledge that both have knack of winning big tournaments using their respective approaches...which is more than we are capable of doing. |
I share your opinion about Spain. For me they are so possession based yet don't trouble the opposition keeper enough. Possession without intent or purpose at times. | | | |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:54 - Jul 20 with 891 views | bsw72 |
It's not about bringing through youngsters - it is more overcoming the mental block and the belief that we are good enough to actually win a tournament, combined with a significant improvement on some of our technical ability - mainly passing and movement.
Man for man we are not that far off the Spanish players with core ability but we are some way off their ball retention and movement to control the game - quick one touch passing, always knowing where a player will be, and more importantly when a move does break down knowing there will be cover.
Worth noting that Spain had 4036 offers to receive in WC2026 - that is where a player has actively signalled, changed body shape or made a clear movement to receive the ball from a teammate.
England had 3219 - so 20% less opportuinty to pass to a team mate - and England were 3rd, just behind Argentina on 3283.
Spain are a world apart with their movement . . . so then there is passing.
Not much difference on accuracy, Spain at 90% completion and England at 89% - but passes completed, 4945 for Spain and only 3577 for England - Spain moved the ball more to create space, control the game and open up the opposition.
When we lost the ball, it took us on average 127Secs to recover it, Spain pressed more and recovered in 90 seconds. As a result Spain had 399 forced turnovers when they actively recovered the ball, vs just 274 for England. The slow turnover and lower volume of active recoveries left us exposed and under more pressure. Maybe why we conceded 12 goals and Spain only 1.
The good news while Spain were technically better than every other team in the tournament, England were pretty close to them in all but the passing and movement/pressing.
This is hard to measure the impact, but England probably had the toughest set of knockout matches based on opponents, conditions and travel - we travelled the futhest at around 15K miles, but Spain were not far behind at around 13K miles - both had journeys to Mexico, but to follow knockouts in Mexico with Miami heat and then against Argentina was without doubt a contributor to England's semi final defeat.
FInally, while all the above shows where we fall short of Spain, it is without doubt a tactical failure which contributed most to the semi final defeat - which cannot be accounted for with stats.
Hopefully we have learned this time, but we won't really know until June/uly 2028 . . . . [Post edited 20 Jul 11:57]
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:58 - Jul 20 with 856 views | Ryorry |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:46 - Jul 20 by nrb1985 |
Not that many nations have a top striker nowadays, Norway and France maybe only.
I'm pretty sanguine about who comes after Kane. As Spain have proved, you don't need a top class goal scorer to be successful.
France were arguably at their most formidable with Giroud up front as another example.
And while we might not have beaten Spain but as we showed 2 years ago, we'd have given them a much better game than the Argies did. [Post edited 20 Jul 11:48]
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Your last para's inarguably correct - what an absolute travesty of a game that was. If I'd had a ticket +1 & taken someone along who'd never watched football before, I'd have been thoroughly embarrassed. | |
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:00 - Jul 20 with 840 views | bsw72 |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:32 - Jul 20 by Deano69 |
I really don’t enjoy Spanish football based on what I have seen at the WC. Spain v Portugal was an awful game.
Superb technical ability but very little excitement or entertainment imo.
I think we would have come close were it us in the final against them.
That said, think I prefer 3rd to 2nd place. |
Its' weird, but finishing on a high in 3rd, does probably feel better than losing the final game and coming 2nd . . . | | | |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:06 - Jul 20 with 818 views | Ftnfwest |
When you go back to watching us you realise how slow we are in comparison. Pace just for what it's worth seems to be getting more sidelined and defences dropping deep can move up and down quickly now.
Spains better teams always seem to peak when they have a finisher as well as the passers in midfield/defence, they don't always have that. The Barcelona & spain teams of 15 odd years ago peaked when they had David Villa fit for 2-3 years and this Spain team has Oyazabal/Ferran Torres - not quite in the same league but pretty good. |  | | |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:07 - Jul 20 with 806 views | Ryorry |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:00 - Jul 20 by bsw72 |
Its' weird, but finishing on a high in 3rd, does probably feel better than losing the final game and coming 2nd . . . |
Agree, but that's partly because it was such an uninhibited, free-flowing game played in good spirit by both sides, without the fierce gamesmanship that goes with chance of progressing further either in a tournament or up the league. | |
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:18 - Jul 20 with 751 views | BloomBlue |
Its not about individuals, its about a team, thats why Spain are a success.
They work for each other, but conversely they know why each other is. Its all Pep in many ways, little triangles, keep passing between three players waiting for movement of another player in space. Once ball is passed to that player in space, start another triangle, eventually a space opens up which results in a potential scoring opportunity. If the ball is lost they immediately close down.
They prove you don't need a traditional CF and certainly not a large physical 6foot+ CF.
Its ingrained in them from a young age, in England we're still teaching kids in the old style.
You see/hear it a lot with fans we must have big physical players, player x isn't good enough to be a CF he isnt even 6foot tall etc etc. |  | | |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:28 - Jul 20 with 718 views | Ryorry |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:54 - Jul 20 by bsw72 |
It's not about bringing through youngsters - it is more overcoming the mental block and the belief that we are good enough to actually win a tournament, combined with a significant improvement on some of our technical ability - mainly passing and movement.
Man for man we are not that far off the Spanish players with core ability but we are some way off their ball retention and movement to control the game - quick one touch passing, always knowing where a player will be, and more importantly when a move does break down knowing there will be cover.
Worth noting that Spain had 4036 offers to receive in WC2026 - that is where a player has actively signalled, changed body shape or made a clear movement to receive the ball from a teammate.
England had 3219 - so 20% less opportuinty to pass to a team mate - and England were 3rd, just behind Argentina on 3283.
Spain are a world apart with their movement . . . so then there is passing.
Not much difference on accuracy, Spain at 90% completion and England at 89% - but passes completed, 4945 for Spain and only 3577 for England - Spain moved the ball more to create space, control the game and open up the opposition.
When we lost the ball, it took us on average 127Secs to recover it, Spain pressed more and recovered in 90 seconds. As a result Spain had 399 forced turnovers when they actively recovered the ball, vs just 274 for England. The slow turnover and lower volume of active recoveries left us exposed and under more pressure. Maybe why we conceded 12 goals and Spain only 1.
The good news while Spain were technically better than every other team in the tournament, England were pretty close to them in all but the passing and movement/pressing.
This is hard to measure the impact, but England probably had the toughest set of knockout matches based on opponents, conditions and travel - we travelled the futhest at around 15K miles, but Spain were not far behind at around 13K miles - both had journeys to Mexico, but to follow knockouts in Mexico with Miami heat and then against Argentina was without doubt a contributor to England's semi final defeat.
FInally, while all the above shows where we fall short of Spain, it is without doubt a tactical failure which contributed most to the semi final defeat - which cannot be accounted for with stats.
Hopefully we have learned this time, but we won't really know until June/uly 2028 . . . . [Post edited 20 Jul 11:57]
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Interesting, thanks.
I'd say we still need youngsters to be coming through in all positions however - clearly can't be standing still with only the existing squad for the future. | |
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:31 - Jul 20 with 698 views | Vic |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 11:46 - Jul 20 by nrb1985 |
Not that many nations have a top striker nowadays, Norway and France maybe only.
I'm pretty sanguine about who comes after Kane. As Spain have proved, you don't need a top class goal scorer to be successful.
France were arguably at their most formidable with Giroud up front as another example.
And while we might not have beaten Spain but as we showed 2 years ago, we'd have given them a much better game than the Argies did. [Post edited 20 Jul 11:48]
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'Not many nations have a top striker nowadays'.
Ahem .... I give you a certain Mr Harry Kane who plays for England and who I think has been outscoring both Mbappe and Haarland. |  |
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:36 - Jul 20 with 678 views | bsw72 |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:28 - Jul 20 by Ryorry |
Interesting, thanks.
I'd say we still need youngsters to be coming through in all positions however - clearly can't be standing still with only the existing squad for the future. |
True - but that is always the same, you need to bring players in as others age and move on - the technical shortfall is more challenging and needs to be addressed across all players. | | | |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:37 - Jul 20 with 665 views | Ryorry |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:31 - Jul 20 by Vic |
'Not many nations have a top striker nowadays'.
Ahem .... I give you a certain Mr Harry Kane who plays for England and who I think has been outscoring both Mbappe and Haarland. |
After Spain winning, the only other good thing about last night was Mbappe winning the golden boot - not Missi. So Kane clearly didn't outscore him in the tourney, tho you're right re his importance as a top striker for us. | |
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:48 - Jul 20 with 607 views | jayessess |
I thought Spain did a really impressive job with the resources they had at hand but I don't think they were anywhere near invincible. Out of possession they were absolutely superb but I think if they'd gone behind in any game they'd have struggled to overcome a low block with that relatively weak forward line.
Think that's the infuriating thing about England's head loss and capitulation in the semi final - they would have had a real shot at beating Spain, a better shot than Argentina in my view.
What Spain have is a world-class regista in Rodri and that's what got them past France. It's the thing England never have and the thing that they missed in losses to Croatia, Italy and Spain in big tournament games and now to Argentina. |  |
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:59 - Jul 20 with 569 views | BarcaBlue |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:48 - Jul 20 by jayessess |
I thought Spain did a really impressive job with the resources they had at hand but I don't think they were anywhere near invincible. Out of possession they were absolutely superb but I think if they'd gone behind in any game they'd have struggled to overcome a low block with that relatively weak forward line.
Think that's the infuriating thing about England's head loss and capitulation in the semi final - they would have had a real shot at beating Spain, a better shot than Argentina in my view.
What Spain have is a world-class regista in Rodri and that's what got them past France. It's the thing England never have and the thing that they missed in losses to Croatia, Italy and Spain in big tournament games and now to Argentina. |
Yeah, I think there are 2 or 3 obvious positions where Spain need an upgrade which I think could have been exploited by the opposition.
With their wingers being so crucial now to fighting the low block having Nico Williams and Lamine Yamal coming into the tournament not fully fit left them relatively toothless with Oyarzabal and Torres being very decent but not world class forwards.
It's frightening really how much they could improve going into the next tournament. |  | | |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 13:07 - Jul 20 with 541 views | jayessess |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:59 - Jul 20 by BarcaBlue |
Yeah, I think there are 2 or 3 obvious positions where Spain need an upgrade which I think could have been exploited by the opposition.
With their wingers being so crucial now to fighting the low block having Nico Williams and Lamine Yamal coming into the tournament not fully fit left them relatively toothless with Oyarzabal and Torres being very decent but not world class forwards.
It's frightening really how much they could improve going into the next tournament. |
Could go the other way mind. Nico Williams might be on the F. Chiesa trajectory where he does one tournament at an extraordinary level but never hits it again. Don't think he's shown his Euro 2024 form at Athletic either before that tournament or after. Rodri and Ruiz are incredible and irreplaceable, both will be 32 at the next euros, 34 at the next world cup, which is a relatively big age for a centre midfielder. | |
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 13:12 - Jul 20 with 529 views | nrb1985 |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 12:31 - Jul 20 by Vic |
'Not many nations have a top striker nowadays'.
Ahem .... I give you a certain Mr Harry Kane who plays for England and who I think has been outscoring both Mbappe and Haarland. |
Well obviously Kane - the OP though and my reply were about what comes after Kane. | | | |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 13:20 - Jul 20 with 499 views | BarcaBlue |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 13:07 - Jul 20 by jayessess |
Could go the other way mind. Nico Williams might be on the F. Chiesa trajectory where he does one tournament at an extraordinary level but never hits it again. Don't think he's shown his Euro 2024 form at Athletic either before that tournament or after. Rodri and Ruiz are incredible and irreplaceable, both will be 32 at the next euros, 34 at the next world cup, which is a relatively big age for a centre midfielder. |
Yep, fair points although both Pedri and Gavi are not too shabby in midfield. Good point on Williams and may have already peaked. | | | |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 14:00 - Jul 20 with 409 views | Illinoisblue |
They have lots of elite talent plus, crucially, big game mentality. Look at the record of Spanish national team and Spanish club teams in finals since 2001. 23 finals, won them all. |  |
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 14:10 - Jul 20 with 388 views | Pinewoodblue |
England will play 2 competitive games against Spain before Christmas in Nations League. |  |
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| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 14:23 - Jul 20 with 342 views | jayessess |
| Let's talk about footballing Spain for a bit on 14:10 - Jul 20 by Pinewoodblue |
England will play 2 competitive games against Spain before Christmas in Nations League. |
Having not won anything for sixty years do think it's time that England start taking the Nations League seriously. It isn't the most prestigious tournament but winning things is about muscle memory.
The other thing is Tuchel declared after the Argentina game that keeping the ball just wasn't in the English DNA. Does he try and fix that by attempting to develop Adam Wharton into that conductor we've always missed? Or just crack on with the "pace and power" plan A? | |
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