| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. 13:38 - Aug 13 with 4622 views | Gary_Knows |
… €20m offer to low to begin with.
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| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:40 - Aug 13 with 4522 views | portmanking |
Christ, Plettenberg isn't saying he doesn't want to play for us....
This next fortnight could define the next generation for our club. |  | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:47 - Aug 13 with 4373 views | cbower |
It will need more than that for sure. |  |
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| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:50 - Aug 13 with 4272 views | portmanking |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:47 - Aug 13 by cbower |
It will need more than that for sure. |
Sell Jaden for £25m and go slap €30m on Bayer's table pronto. | | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:53 - Aug 13 with 4187 views | Bellevue_Blue |
Sounds like a deal is there to be done! Go and get the cooking oil Ashton ... | | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:54 - Aug 13 with 4178 views | burnbudgiesburn |
Not sure his record of appearances per season justifies us going crazy on this one tbh. If we were to do this i'd want a ton of clauses built in.
Why doesn't this excite me as much as it should? | | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:56 - Aug 13 with 4100 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:50 - Aug 13 by portmanking |
Sell Jaden for £25m and go slap €30m on Bayer's table pronto. |
Does his injury record concern you? No doubt if we get him it is going to take an enormous financial commitment in fee and wages predominantly. Extremely high risk/reward. Best case he stays fit, is the difference maker and we stay up. Worse case he struggles with his fitness, we go down and we are saddled with him on big wages or have to take a huge hit to get rid of him. | | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:02 - Aug 13 with 3958 views | Ryorry |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:54 - Aug 13 by burnbudgiesburn |
Not sure his record of appearances per season justifies us going crazy on this one tbh. If we were to do this i'd want a ton of clauses built in.
Why doesn't this excite me as much as it should? |
Zactly. Horrendous history of injuries in recent years. Too high a risk for my liking. |  |
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| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:14 - Aug 13 with 3711 views | MattinLondon |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:54 - Aug 13 by burnbudgiesburn |
Not sure his record of appearances per season justifies us going crazy on this one tbh. If we were to do this i'd want a ton of clauses built in.
Why doesn't this excite me as much as it should? |
According to wiki he featured in on average around 25 Bundesliga matches for the last few seasons. In a 34 match season that’s not too bad. It does indicate that he has a few injuries per season.
I’m sure that the medical team here will be methodical in assessing him.
I am excited about the possibility of him signing but I don’t think that it’ll ever happen. [Post edited 13 Aug 14:18]
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| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:15 - Aug 13 with 3698 views | pointofblue |
His injury record is the only reason we're in with a chance for him. Leverkusen are selling on potential, we're trying to protect ourselves as buyers. On the face of it, I wouldn't mind meeting them in the middle at 25m but it's not my money! And other clubs might start to circle if the price comes down. | |
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| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:15 - Aug 13 with 3694 views | Wright1 |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:56 - Aug 13 by tractorboy1978 |
Does his injury record concern you? No doubt if we get him it is going to take an enormous financial commitment in fee and wages predominantly. Extremely high risk/reward. Best case he stays fit, is the difference maker and we stay up. Worse case he struggles with his fitness, we go down and we are saddled with him on big wages or have to take a huge hit to get rid of him. |
I think i've said elsewhere on the site that before this window is over we made have to take a big swing on someone and hope it pays off. Leeds signed Calvert-Lewin last summer and frankly i'd written him off and assumed he'd be injured the whole season - what actually transpired was him staying fit, being inspirational and pivotal to their survival.
I suppose my point is, some of these players may be a level above where we are currently but available to us because of issues such as sketchy injury records. Those deals often come with significant financial risks... but one of those coming off can be the difference come the end of the season. You could argue him coming in and being our best player in half to two-thirds of the games could be worth the expense if it converts to points won. | | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:16 - Aug 13 with 3659 views | Gary_Knows |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:40 - Aug 13 by portmanking |
Christ, Plettenberg isn't saying he doesn't want to play for us....
This next fortnight could define the next generation for our club. |
I imagine we’ll hold out till the last week of the window and enter the ‘who blinks first’ sort of territory. Suspect any deal gets done around €25m, so if we can get him for less than that it’ll be viewed as a good deal. Anything more with his injury record is probably enough for us to look elsewhere. | |
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| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:19 - Aug 13 with 3549 views | Metal_Hacker |
My theory is if he does join and he only plays say 20 games but during those games we manage to amass 25+ points , it's a big step forward to where we need to be |  |
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| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:19 - Aug 13 with 3520 views | portmanking |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:56 - Aug 13 by tractorboy1978 |
Does his injury record concern you? No doubt if we get him it is going to take an enormous financial commitment in fee and wages predominantly. Extremely high risk/reward. Best case he stays fit, is the difference maker and we stay up. Worse case he struggles with his fitness, we go down and we are saddled with him on big wages or have to take a huge hit to get rid of him. |
Let's say he only played 25-26 games....
His presence alone meant we had a 40% win rate when he was on the pitch... (theoretically speaking)
That's 10 league wins (theoretically speaking). Which would likely be enough to avoid the drop.
There's always a chance that our medical department find ways to wrap Palacios in cotton wool better than other clubs. We did it pretty well with Cajuste, even if he wasn't good enough on the field of play. | | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:25 - Aug 13 with 3377 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:15 - Aug 13 by Wright1 |
I think i've said elsewhere on the site that before this window is over we made have to take a big swing on someone and hope it pays off. Leeds signed Calvert-Lewin last summer and frankly i'd written him off and assumed he'd be injured the whole season - what actually transpired was him staying fit, being inspirational and pivotal to their survival.
I suppose my point is, some of these players may be a level above where we are currently but available to us because of issues such as sketchy injury records. Those deals often come with significant financial risks... but one of those coming off can be the difference come the end of the season. You could argue him coming in and being our best player in half to two-thirds of the games could be worth the expense if it converts to points won. |
I don't disagree with your theory. DCL was a free transfer though so a bit different to potentially paying out a €30m fee and £100k+ a week wages. | | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:28 - Aug 13 with 3268 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:19 - Aug 13 by portmanking |
Let's say he only played 25-26 games....
His presence alone meant we had a 40% win rate when he was on the pitch... (theoretically speaking)
That's 10 league wins (theoretically speaking). Which would likely be enough to avoid the drop.
There's always a chance that our medical department find ways to wrap Palacios in cotton wool better than other clubs. We did it pretty well with Cajuste, even if he wasn't good enough on the field of play. |
I suppose we will have less games in totality than Leverkusen with their European mid-week games on top of the league. So there is definitely a case we can manage his body and minutes better than they've been able to.
When you have €20-30m and 100 grand a week wages to spend on someone then you should be able to get a player of suitable quality to make a huge difference to your season. [Post edited 13 Aug 14:29]
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| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:30 - Aug 13 with 3177 views | Wright1 |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:25 - Aug 13 by tractorboy1978 |
I don't disagree with your theory. DCL was a free transfer though so a bit different to potentially paying out a €30m fee and £100k+ a week wages. |
OK... everyone hails the signing of Xhaka last season. I'll give you, that was still a smaller fee... but 33 years old and i'd guess most people would have suggested his best days were behind him, not got the legs for PL football etc...
I think he is on £110K + a week but it has paid off him spades.
Frankly, reading the interview with Ashton this morning, the money isn't the issue... it is getting him to agree to come here and the opportunity cost of who else we could have had in his stead if he does miss most of the season or flops. | | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:39 - Aug 13 with 2959 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:30 - Aug 13 by Wright1 |
OK... everyone hails the signing of Xhaka last season. I'll give you, that was still a smaller fee... but 33 years old and i'd guess most people would have suggested his best days were behind him, not got the legs for PL football etc...
I think he is on £110K + a week but it has paid off him spades.
Frankly, reading the interview with Ashton this morning, the money isn't the issue... it is getting him to agree to come here and the opportunity cost of who else we could have had in his stead if he does miss most of the season or flops. |
That isn't the case at all re Xhaka. He was 32 years old and off the back of playing 99 games in his previous two seasons as Bayer Leverkusen captain. He has always been a very durable player and barely ever been injured. It was a truly phenomenal signing for Sunderland at the time. If they'd gone down then clubs would have been queuing up to take him.
The biggest concern for me is Palacios injury record. If he was anywhere near as durable as Xhaka then we wouldn't have a chance in hell of signing him. The fact we are even in with a chance is testament to the fact he is a risk. Hopefully if we do get him then it pays off. We took a punt on Phillips last time and it didn't pay off. Luckily that one wasn't hugely expensive in the scheme of things. | | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:43 - Aug 13 with 2890 views | John_Warks_Willy |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:53 - Aug 13 by Bellevue_Blue |
Sounds like a deal is there to be done! Go and get the cooking oil Ashton ... |
Exactly how I read it too. Go MA |  |
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| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:52 - Aug 13 with 2758 views | Litfc00 |
Linked some data below which shows why we’re interested in Palacios.
TLDR: He’s the best box-to-box midfielder in the Bundesliga but has some injury issues.
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| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:54 - Aug 13 with 2695 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:39 - Aug 13 by tractorboy1978 |
That isn't the case at all re Xhaka. He was 32 years old and off the back of playing 99 games in his previous two seasons as Bayer Leverkusen captain. He has always been a very durable player and barely ever been injured. It was a truly phenomenal signing for Sunderland at the time. If they'd gone down then clubs would have been queuing up to take him.
The biggest concern for me is Palacios injury record. If he was anywhere near as durable as Xhaka then we wouldn't have a chance in hell of signing him. The fact we are even in with a chance is testament to the fact he is a risk. Hopefully if we do get him then it pays off. We took a punt on Phillips last time and it didn't pay off. Luckily that one wasn't hugely expensive in the scheme of things. |
Phillips didn't pay off because he was nowhere near the level, not because he was injured all the time.
He missed 2 games through injury before we were relegated.
Palacios in comparison ...
- Missed 6 league games through injury in 23/24 but played 36
- Missed 4 league games through injury in 24/25 but played 38
- Missed 15 league games in 25/26 but played 25
23/24 & 24/25 is totally in keeping with the norm for most Footballers and then last season he had one big injury.
I'm not sure it is fair to say that he's not durable. We will play max 45 games this season. | | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 15:07 - Aug 13 with 2459 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 14:54 - Aug 13 by Bellevue_Blue |
Phillips didn't pay off because he was nowhere near the level, not because he was injured all the time.
He missed 2 games through injury before we were relegated.
Palacios in comparison ...
- Missed 6 league games through injury in 23/24 but played 36
- Missed 4 league games through injury in 24/25 but played 38
- Missed 15 league games in 25/26 but played 25
23/24 & 24/25 is totally in keeping with the norm for most Footballers and then last season he had one big injury.
I'm not sure it is fair to say that he's not durable. We will play max 45 games this season. |
I wasn't commenting on Phillips being injured. I just meant we took a player with a question mark (that was seen as a coup at the time) that was on big money and it didn't work out for whatever reason.
Re Palacios - try looking further into those figures and the number of starts throughout those three seasons, particularly the last two seasons. He is a player that clearly has to manage his minutes and his body. I am not trying to be negative or necessarily against taking the risk to sign him but we need to be realistic about what we are potentially getting. | | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 15:21 - Aug 13 with 2234 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 15:07 - Aug 13 by tractorboy1978 |
I wasn't commenting on Phillips being injured. I just meant we took a player with a question mark (that was seen as a coup at the time) that was on big money and it didn't work out for whatever reason.
Re Palacios - try looking further into those figures and the number of starts throughout those three seasons, particularly the last two seasons. He is a player that clearly has to manage his minutes and his body. I am not trying to be negative or necessarily against taking the risk to sign him but we need to be realistic about what we are potentially getting. |
23/ 24 - Started 30 games
24/25 - Started 23 games
25/26 - Started 18 games
Last year was really the only season he's been properly impacted by injury and when he came back he started 17/ 24 games Leverkusen played after his return. That isn't really managing minutes ...
The risk is being overstated IMO. | | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 16:13 - Aug 13 with 1721 views | Exiled2Surrey |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 15:07 - Aug 13 by tractorboy1978 |
I wasn't commenting on Phillips being injured. I just meant we took a player with a question mark (that was seen as a coup at the time) that was on big money and it didn't work out for whatever reason.
Re Palacios - try looking further into those figures and the number of starts throughout those three seasons, particularly the last two seasons. He is a player that clearly has to manage his minutes and his body. I am not trying to be negative or necessarily against taking the risk to sign him but we need to be realistic about what we are potentially getting. |
I think the better comparison is with Cajuste?
I wouldn’t take that risk with Jens, but this fella may be a different story | | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 17:16 - Aug 13 with 1329 views | HighgateBlue |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 13:56 - Aug 13 by tractorboy1978 |
Does his injury record concern you? No doubt if we get him it is going to take an enormous financial commitment in fee and wages predominantly. Extremely high risk/reward. Best case he stays fit, is the difference maker and we stay up. Worse case he struggles with his fitness, we go down and we are saddled with him on big wages or have to take a huge hit to get rid of him. |
It's a risk for sure. But it's probably the only reason we're in with a chance. Surely if his injury record were not what it is, he would have suitors far higher up the Premier League pecking order. World Cup winner, decent age, key position. On paper (and ignoring the benefit of hindsight) it would surely raise as many eyebrows as Xhaka to Sunderland.
Injury risk is not always a green light or a red light. But I think we should be prepared to push the boat out unless the medical advice is not to touch with a barge pole. |  | | |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 17:29 - Aug 13 with 1198 views | WicklowBlue |
| Negotiations on hold for Palacios.. on 17:16 - Aug 13 by HighgateBlue |
It's a risk for sure. But it's probably the only reason we're in with a chance. Surely if his injury record were not what it is, he would have suitors far higher up the Premier League pecking order. World Cup winner, decent age, key position. On paper (and ignoring the benefit of hindsight) it would surely raise as many eyebrows as Xhaka to Sunderland.
Injury risk is not always a green light or a red light. But I think we should be prepared to push the boat out unless the medical advice is not to touch with a barge pole. |
To that point, it also depends on the type of injury issues. Is it the same injury recurrence, different injuries, how he has been managed i.e. rushed back/delaying surgery during a season.
A lot of variables. |  | | |
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