| Survival is not about playing pretty football 09:53 - Sep 6 with 4854 views | muccletonjoe |
Hull have 7 points playing mostly, 5-4-1 , there has to be some reality introduced to our tactics , we are not going to break any teams down playing with 4 attacking players, we had one of our worst ever seasons doing that 2 years ago |  | | |  |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 10:09 - Sep 6 with 3023 views | pointofblue |
When I suggested switching to a wing back system I got a load of down votes so I'm not sure if it's that popular an idea.
Saying that, I'm getting sick and tired of Hull getting the starry eyed treatment. They should have lost all three games so far on xG. Their wondrous defence is being breached; it's just their opposition cannot finish, plus they have a better keeper than us, which helps when their backline is exposed. Maybe their luck will hold - it did for Sunderland last year - but it's not as brilliant, or a route to follow as people would like to make out. |  |
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| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 10:12 - Sep 6 with 3010 views | muccletonjoe |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 10:09 - Sep 6 by pointofblue |
When I suggested switching to a wing back system I got a load of down votes so I'm not sure if it's that popular an idea.
Saying that, I'm getting sick and tired of Hull getting the starry eyed treatment. They should have lost all three games so far on xG. Their wondrous defence is being breached; it's just their opposition cannot finish, plus they have a better keeper than us, which helps when their backline is exposed. Maybe their luck will hold - it did for Sunderland last year - but it's not as brilliant, or a route to follow as people would like to make out. |
May prove alot better for us . I am of the opinion we have better players to use on counter attacking football. | | | |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 10:32 - Sep 6 with 2912 views | Swansea_Blue |
Let’s not pretend we’re playing pretty football either. We have small moments, but there’s not a lot of fluidity in what we’re doing. Naive football might be a better way to describe some of what we’re seeing.
Agree with comments that were well-equipped to play with 5 at the back. It’ll be interesting to see how our current set up goes against slightly poorer (although still good) teams in the next three. If our way is going to persist we need to see a result or two like we managed against Sunderland. If not and we’re well beat, then maybe he should try changing it up. But it’s still early days and swapping things around now could also signal to the players that he’s not sure on what he’s doing and doesn’t have faith in them. I’m more worried about the impact on moral if we do badly in the next few though. [Post edited 6 Sep 10:34]
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| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 10:54 - Sep 6 with 2818 views | BloomBlue |
Leeds stayed up last season playing attacking football, they had 4 points after 4 games, and one of those was a 5-0 loss to Arsenal which could have easily ended 7 or 8 nil.
Brentford stayed up 6 seasons ago by basically staying with the same squad as they used in the Championship, but many people on this site said you have to spend millions to survive
The point being different approaches can still result in survival, but we're only at game 3.
I find it ironic that Leeds fans are often characterised as moaning morons, but last season they were relaxed after game 4 and four points. The vast majority accepted it was a solid start and with new players it would take time to build up an understanding. |  | | |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 10:56 - Sep 6 with 2822 views | Guthrum |
We seemed to do ok against Sunderland. It wasn't like we scored from our only two opportunities. We scored two at Old Trafford. We weren't without threat on Friday night.
Everyone was lauding the way we played in the first game of the season, our front-foot, high pressing, lively approach. People were excited. Now a couple of losses against two of the top teams in the division has turned lots of them into defence-obsessives, proposing that we rip up the entire summer's preparation and recruitment in order to stuff the back line at the price of becoming toothless.
All this because Hull managed to ambush ManC (at the MKM), beat a horredous Coventry and frustrate a Villa team struggling to sort themselves out, allegedly with mega-defensive tactics - which is how they were playing in the Championship too. |  |
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| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 11:00 - Sep 6 with 2794 views | franz_tyson |
It's early days.
A few weeks, replicating Xhaka was the key to survival.
Now its copying Hull. | | | |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 11:04 - Sep 6 with 2774 views | sotd78 |
Hull spent last season playing break football. They have been built doing that and will again this season. We, on the other hand, have not been set up that way. And can't simply change quickly. |  |
| Blue shirts/white shorts - sotd78 |
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| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 11:09 - Sep 6 with 2752 views | Radlett_blue |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 10:56 - Sep 6 by Guthrum |
We seemed to do ok against Sunderland. It wasn't like we scored from our only two opportunities. We scored two at Old Trafford. We weren't without threat on Friday night.
Everyone was lauding the way we played in the first game of the season, our front-foot, high pressing, lively approach. People were excited. Now a couple of losses against two of the top teams in the division has turned lots of them into defence-obsessives, proposing that we rip up the entire summer's preparation and recruitment in order to stuff the back line at the price of becoming toothless.
All this because Hull managed to ambush ManC (at the MKM), beat a horredous Coventry and frustrate a Villa team struggling to sort themselves out, allegedly with mega-defensive tactics - which is how they were playing in the Championship too. |
If we look porous at the back at Palace, ship goals & lose again despite playing some nice football, the knives will be out again. But let's wait & see how the Palace & Everton games go before throwing out the baby with the bathwater. |  |
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| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 11:14 - Sep 6 with 2744 views | Guthrum |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 11:09 - Sep 6 by Radlett_blue |
If we look porous at the back at Palace, ship goals & lose again despite playing some nice football, the knives will be out again. But let's wait & see how the Palace & Everton games go before throwing out the baby with the bathwater. |
I get the feeling that, having failed to land their preferred targets in defence, some people are all too keen to scapegoat the back-line.
Our biggest issue on Friday was not really there, but the inability to retain the ball higher up the pitch. Liverpool's razor-sharp interceptions and passing stopped most attacks and threw them instantly back towards our goal. Fortunately, our own ability to get back quickly in numbers then frustrated their attempts to get clean shots away. [Post edited 6 Sep 11:15]
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| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 11:33 - Sep 6 with 2680 views | Bellevue_Blue |
They started well but Hull are already out performing their Xg by almost 5 points.
United didn't take their chances, Coventry didn't take their chances and Villa didn't take their chances.
I don't know if you watched the game but McGinn and Buendia missed absolute sitters yesterday.
It's just as much of a risk to play the way they are playing. You have to hope that the opposition are wasteful and you take your 1 or 2 chances. | | | |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 11:44 - Sep 6 with 2637 views | Weekender |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 10:09 - Sep 6 by pointofblue |
When I suggested switching to a wing back system I got a load of down votes so I'm not sure if it's that popular an idea.
Saying that, I'm getting sick and tired of Hull getting the starry eyed treatment. They should have lost all three games so far on xG. Their wondrous defence is being breached; it's just their opposition cannot finish, plus they have a better keeper than us, which helps when their backline is exposed. Maybe their luck will hold - it did for Sunderland last year - but it's not as brilliant, or a route to follow as people would like to make out. |
Good question where the Hull can keep this going. They did last season, had the table been decided by Xg they have been relegated. Can their new squad do the same in the Premier League? So far so good but only three games. |  |
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| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 11:51 - Sep 6 with 2612 views | pointofblue |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 11:44 - Sep 6 by Weekender |
Good question where the Hull can keep this going. They did last season, had the table been decided by Xg they have been relegated. Can their new squad do the same in the Premier League? So far so good but only three games. |
Not quite relegated - they would have finished 18th. Sunderland would have been relegated from the Premier League, though. | |
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| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 11:56 - Sep 6 with 2604 views | Weekender |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 11:51 - Sep 6 by pointofblue |
Not quite relegated - they would have finished 18th. Sunderland would have been relegated from the Premier League, though. |
Ah thanks, I may have mixed them up | |
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| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 12:27 - Sep 6 with 2467 views | berkstractorboy |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 11:33 - Sep 6 by Bellevue_Blue |
They started well but Hull are already out performing their Xg by almost 5 points.
United didn't take their chances, Coventry didn't take their chances and Villa didn't take their chances.
I don't know if you watched the game but McGinn and Buendia missed absolute sitters yesterday.
It's just as much of a risk to play the way they are playing. You have to hope that the opposition are wasteful and you take your 1 or 2 chances. |
And Villa didn't get a pen for the 2 handed push in the back. Last season VAR would have looked at that and I think given the pen. This season they said they wouldn't get involved to re-ref so didn't get involved which is right, we just need that consistency to be kept up over the whole season. | | | |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 12:35 - Sep 6 with 2434 views | Adams |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 10:09 - Sep 6 by pointofblue |
When I suggested switching to a wing back system I got a load of down votes so I'm not sure if it's that popular an idea.
Saying that, I'm getting sick and tired of Hull getting the starry eyed treatment. They should have lost all three games so far on xG. Their wondrous defence is being breached; it's just their opposition cannot finish, plus they have a better keeper than us, which helps when their backline is exposed. Maybe their luck will hold - it did for Sunderland last year - but it's not as brilliant, or a route to follow as people would like to make out. |
Of course, they are outperforming their xG. They have the worst squad in the league by some distance, but they haven't conceded a goal and have kept the xG below 1.8 in all goals. They shouldn't be competitive with Villa and Man U with their team and were underdogs against Coventry.
They're showing the benefit of staying in games and making teams work hard for their chances instead of conceding goals from one pass like we are.
Hull deserves all the praise they have been getting for how well they have been set up tactically. They have been tactically perfect and are making the most of the players they have. It's very weird that you're trying to downplay it.
As for our style of play, there is a middle ground. I'm not asking us to play like Hull, but playing a little deeper and having a bit more in midfield is common sense. We were poor tactically in the previous two games. The first thing a promoted team needs to do is be hard to play against and not be a soft touch. Playing a high line when there's no pressure on the ball, when we have slow defenders, is beyond stupid. | | | |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 12:40 - Sep 6 with 2411 views | jas0999 |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 10:54 - Sep 6 by BloomBlue |
Leeds stayed up last season playing attacking football, they had 4 points after 4 games, and one of those was a 5-0 loss to Arsenal which could have easily ended 7 or 8 nil.
Brentford stayed up 6 seasons ago by basically staying with the same squad as they used in the Championship, but many people on this site said you have to spend millions to survive
The point being different approaches can still result in survival, but we're only at game 3.
I find it ironic that Leeds fans are often characterised as moaning morons, but last season they were relaxed after game 4 and four points. The vast majority accepted it was a solid start and with new players it would take time to build up an understanding. |
Home form was key for Brentford. I seem to recall they looked capable of being anyone at their place. We really need to make PR a very difficult place to come to. As we did for a Sunderland. Need to be much better than we were against Liverpool …. Especially on the opening exchanges.
It will take the pressure off away days, which are difficult. | | | |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 12:46 - Sep 6 with 2391 views | jayessess |
Don't think our setup against Man Utd and Liverpool made it hard enough for either side, but jury's probably still out on the better survival strategy. Three games successfully employing low block and counter attack could still easily just be a bit of good fortune. Our setup might be more appropriate to other fixtures. We'll see. |  |
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| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 12:53 - Sep 6 with 2375 views | berkstractorboy |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 12:46 - Sep 6 by jayessess |
Don't think our setup against Man Utd and Liverpool made it hard enough for either side, but jury's probably still out on the better survival strategy. Three games successfully employing low block and counter attack could still easily just be a bit of good fortune. Our setup might be more appropriate to other fixtures. We'll see. |
I can get we should have been more defensive at Utd, it was our downfall ultimately but we did match them for 45 mins.
For Liverpool, not won in last 6 PL games, not kept clean sheets, team still settling this season, this possibly was the right team to really take it to them and not setup like Hull did against Villa to just not conceded, but that's me. Unfortunately that 1st 10 mins would have undone any plans and we simply have to cut that out as even set-up defensively we have that in us still. | | | |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 12:56 - Sep 6 with 2359 views | Wallingford_Boy |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 10:32 - Sep 6 by Swansea_Blue |
Let’s not pretend we’re playing pretty football either. We have small moments, but there’s not a lot of fluidity in what we’re doing. Naive football might be a better way to describe some of what we’re seeing.
Agree with comments that were well-equipped to play with 5 at the back. It’ll be interesting to see how our current set up goes against slightly poorer (although still good) teams in the next three. If our way is going to persist we need to see a result or two like we managed against Sunderland. If not and we’re well beat, then maybe he should try changing it up. But it’s still early days and swapping things around now could also signal to the players that he’s not sure on what he’s doing and doesn’t have faith in them. I’m more worried about the impact on moral if we do badly in the next few though. [Post edited 6 Sep 10:34]
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Who would play right wing back? Furlong not good enough IMO, Ouatarra only played a few mins at end of each game so far and doesn’t seem ready to start yet.
Anyone else? |  |
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| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 12:57 - Sep 6 with 2355 views | theworstcaseRomario |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 10:54 - Sep 6 by BloomBlue |
Leeds stayed up last season playing attacking football, they had 4 points after 4 games, and one of those was a 5-0 loss to Arsenal which could have easily ended 7 or 8 nil.
Brentford stayed up 6 seasons ago by basically staying with the same squad as they used in the Championship, but many people on this site said you have to spend millions to survive
The point being different approaches can still result in survival, but we're only at game 3.
I find it ironic that Leeds fans are often characterised as moaning morons, but last season they were relaxed after game 4 and four points. The vast majority accepted it was a solid start and with new players it would take time to build up an understanding. |
But it was also well documented that Leeds switched to 3 CB’s last season around November last season because they were struggling, and it changed the course of their season.
“Leeds United transformed their season under manager Daniel Farke by shifting from a possession-based 4-3-3 formation to a more direct, stable 3-5-2 system. [1] ( https://www.premierleague.com/
Key Tactical ChangesFormation Shift: Manager Daniel Farke abandoned the wide 4-3-3 setup for a back-three/five-man defensive base (3-5-2), which brought much-needed defensive stability and stopped central areas from being exposed.”
Survival in the Prem starts with being defensively solid. We know from our last season in the Prem how clinical attackers are at this level, you need to prevent them having too many chances. | | | |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 13:01 - Sep 6 with 2327 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
You've already made all these points in other threads, why did you feel the need to make a new one about it? |  |
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| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 13:06 - Sep 6 with 2292 views | rickw |
Gary O'Neil has kept teams up twice, maybe he thinks the way to do it is to build a team to beat those around them in the league not a team sometimes capable of getting a 0-0 against a top team.... |  |
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| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 13:07 - Sep 6 with 2291 views | wilhirecup |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 13:01 - Sep 6 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You've already made all these points in other threads, why did you feel the need to make a new one about it? |
come the end of the season Town will have at least 15 more points than Hull City ,that is when it matters ! | | | |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 13:08 - Sep 6 with 2288 views | BlueOura |
It's simply too early to draw any firm conclusions. We need to at least see how we approach the next two away games ( and what results we pick up ) before we get too hasty with writing off the tactical approach.
There have certainly been times we have been too open and I think we need to protect the back four better when out of possession, but its too early to rip up the plan and start again.
Florentino was pretty good for Burnley last season in terms of interceptions and defensive contributions, I feel like he can hopefully help us when fully fit. |  | | |
| Survival is not about playing pretty football on 13:14 - Sep 6 with 2255 views | TripSwitch |
4-3-3
Scherps
Ouattara
DOS
Diop/Greaves
Leif
Florentino/Azor
Lukic
Palacios
Maeda
Enciso
Emersonn
Sorted. |  |
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