| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 20:13 - Mar 23 with 1296 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 19:59 - Mar 23 by BloomBlue |
So if someone bombed a synagogue or mosque that's not a racist attacked if nobody is harmed?
So you're saying Its only racist attack, for example, if someone was inside a mosque at the time it was bombed and harmed? |
No, I'm not saying that at all.
A synagogue attack, empty or otherwise is very clearly an antisemitic attack.
You're not actually reading my posts. You're reacting to the comments others are making. [Post edited 23 Mar 20:14]
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 20:16 - Mar 23 with 1302 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 19:46 - Mar 23 by chantryblueboy |
No one sees your perspective because it is wrong. You have spent all day in this thread defending a terrorist attack ffs |
Social media has been a cesspit today. Everything from insurance claims, Israeli false flag to whip up support for genocide and anti semites using Israel bombing ambulances in Gaza whataboutery.
Thankfully, with just a few minor but expected exceptions, TWTD has stepped up to the mark today, which has giving be a good feeling. |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 20:17 - Mar 23 with 1273 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 20:16 - Mar 23 by GlasgowBlue |
Social media has been a cesspit today. Everything from insurance claims, Israeli false flag to whip up support for genocide and anti semites using Israel bombing ambulances in Gaza whataboutery.
Thankfully, with just a few minor but expected exceptions, TWTD has stepped up to the mark today, which has giving be a good feeling. |
Are you calling me an antisemite?
You're an absolute coward GB. You make a huge song and dance about me going onto your "div list", then you took me off "last night after somebody told me you had become the board cheerleader for the Iranian regime" to tell me that I was snobbish. Then to slightly less fanfare you popped me back on your "div list".
It's clearly nonsense because you have referenced one of my posts and called me an antisemite. I'm asking you for clarification of that nasty accusation but of course, you won't respond because I'm on your "div list".
If you have genuine accusations to make do so directly and with evidence. Wimp. [Post edited 23 Mar 20:37]
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 20:23 - Mar 23 with 1279 views | BloomBlue |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 20:13 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
No, I'm not saying that at all.
A synagogue attack, empty or otherwise is very clearly an antisemitic attack.
You're not actually reading my posts. You're reacting to the comments others are making. [Post edited 23 Mar 20:14]
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I did respond to your post you said:
'Fair enough, I hadn't realised anyone had been harmed in the attack'
Hence my point, what difference does it make if someone gets harmed or not for it to be a racist attack.
So, You're not actually reading my posts. You're reacting to the comments others are making. |  | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 20:36 - Mar 23 with 1230 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 20:23 - Mar 23 by BloomBlue |
I did respond to your post you said:
'Fair enough, I hadn't realised anyone had been harmed in the attack'
Hence my point, what difference does it make if someone gets harmed or not for it to be a racist attack.
So, You're not actually reading my posts. You're reacting to the comments others are making. |
Perhaps you should have read the post I was replying to, if you fail to do that, you are taking my words out of context.
Words are important. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 20:54 - Mar 23 with 1202 views | Ryorry |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 19:53 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
Fair enough, I hadn't realised anyone had been harmed in the attack. |
Of course people have been harmed - surely you’re not one of those dinosaurs who think harm can only be physical?
Try living as an obviously Jewish person (wearing a skullcap eg) in the uk, or having family members who do, and then come back to us on whether it affected your mental health and if it changed your lifestyle/behaviour patterns . |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 20:59 - Mar 23 with 1200 views | DJR |
Good, and maybe for some surprising, editorial in the Morning Star. I don't think I could put it better myself.
https://morningstaronline.co.u
The arson attack on four ambulances belonging to the Hatzola Jewish community service is an unambiguous act of anti-semitic hate.
The torched vehicles were parked next to a synagogue: the perpetrators are targeting Jews because they are Jewish. While there were mercifully no casualties, the outrage is clearly intended to make Jewish people across Britain feel unsafe in their own neighbourhoods.
That must be unequivocally condemned. The decision to target ambulances is especially sinister, the wanton destruction of community assets that exist to save lives.
An attack on one is an attack on all. This is literally true in the case of Hatzola volunteer service, which works for the whole community in liaison with the NHS. We all know the pressures on our health service and the importance of ambulance response times in a medical emergency. People could yet die as a result of this crime.
Condemnation must be unhesitating. Socialists must also be alert to the social context that breeds such hate and ready to confront the narratives that make excuses for it.
At the same time, we have to recognise that the arsonists’ motives may be linked to the wars engulfing the Middle East and clear in demolishing the twisted logic that holds Jewish people responsible for the actions of states like Israel or, in an ominous but increasingly prominent trend, the United States or Britain.
The Make America Great Again (Maga) movement in the United States is fracturing over the Iran war, with supporters who took Donald Trump at his word when he claimed to oppose “forever wars” angry that he turns out to be the most aggressive warmonger the White House has seen in decades.
That’s all to the good in itself, but one current presents this as the subversion of the president’s original agenda by an outside actor — Israel. Some on the US far right blame Jews explicitly, but the notion that Trump was tricked into war by Israel has far wider currency, and indeed featured in the resignation letter of counter-terror chief Joe Kent.
Of course Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu has long pressed for this war, and quite possibly convinced Trump it would be easier than it has turned out.
But as Communist Party of Israel Knesset member Ofer Cassif told the Morning Star, Trump’s aggression is global — as we’ve seen from the Caribbean to Greenland — and his determination to tear up international law consistent. There is no need to posit some hidden hand behind his attack on Iran and doing so is fertile ground for anti-semitic conspiracy theories. We must reject these when they circulate on the left as well as the right.
Our duty is to stand with people of any race or religion targeted for who they are, to confront anti-semitism as we do all forms of racism, and to work — difficult as it is — for working-class unity against a capitalist system that uses racist ideologies to divide those it exploits. [Post edited 23 Mar 21:02]
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 21:16 - Mar 23 with 1147 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 20:54 - Mar 23 by Ryorry |
Of course people have been harmed - surely you’re not one of those dinosaurs who think harm can only be physical?
Try living as an obviously Jewish person (wearing a skullcap eg) in the uk, or having family members who do, and then come back to us on whether it affected your mental health and if it changed your lifestyle/behaviour patterns . |
I live in quite a rural area just outside Toulouse in France.
I can tell you there is far more intimidation towards obviously Muslim people than obviously Jewish people in my village.
Surely you’re not one of those dinosaurs who thinks rural communities in west Europe are pleasant places for brown people? [Post edited 23 Mar 21:16]
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 21:33 - Mar 23 with 1122 views | Ryorry |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 21:16 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
I live in quite a rural area just outside Toulouse in France.
I can tell you there is far more intimidation towards obviously Muslim people than obviously Jewish people in my village.
Surely you’re not one of those dinosaurs who thinks rural communities in west Europe are pleasant places for brown people? [Post edited 23 Mar 21:16]
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Ffs. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 21:44 - Mar 23 with 1086 views | chantryblueboy |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 21:16 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
I live in quite a rural area just outside Toulouse in France.
I can tell you there is far more intimidation towards obviously Muslim people than obviously Jewish people in my village.
Surely you’re not one of those dinosaurs who thinks rural communities in west Europe are pleasant places for brown people? [Post edited 23 Mar 21:16]
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Did you make this same point during the BLM movement, or about LGBT causes, or is it only relevant to you when it’s Jewish people?
You’re begging Glassers to call you an anti semite - I’m happy to do it if he won’t |  | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 21:46 - Mar 23 with 1054 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 21:33 - Mar 23 by Ryorry |
Ffs. |
Charming.
Put on a hijab and walk through my village.
Surely you're not one of those dinosaurs who thinks one form of racism is more hurtful than another? | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 21:49 - Mar 23 with 1053 views | Dubtractor |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 21:46 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
Charming.
Put on a hijab and walk through my village.
Surely you're not one of those dinosaurs who thinks one form of racism is more hurtful than another? |
I have to say, whatever point it is that you are trying to make in this thread, you are coming across astonishingly badly. |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 22:40 - Mar 23 with 931 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 21:44 - Mar 23 by chantryblueboy |
Did you make this same point during the BLM movement, or about LGBT causes, or is it only relevant to you when it’s Jewish people?
You’re begging Glassers to call you an anti semite - I’m happy to do it if he won’t |
Did I make what point during the BLM movement, or about LGBT causes?
Please explain.
I'm not begging GB to call me an antisemite. I find false accusations of racism extremely unpleasant and completely inaccurate.
Seriously, you haven't got a clue. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 22:40 - Mar 23 with 943 views | eireblue |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 19:40 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
I've presented a scenario. I've asked people whether the scenario I have outlined could be viewed as an act of Zionism. It seems no one wants to consider the attack is anything other than an antisemitic attack. That's fine, but it's a little odd that no one wants to even contemplate an alternative, including you. |
It isn’t odd.
Lots of people in all walks of life try and justify what they do.
People that attack others don’t get to define their nuanced position, and which words matter, they have lost the right to claim that words matter, as soon as they decide to use violence.
Victims of attacks, get to decide which words matter.
White straight middle aged men don’t get to define Islamaphobia, they don’t get to define Homophobia, they don’t get to define misogyny.
They don’t get to mansplain to victims why their nuanced intellectual justifications are important and why their words suddenly matter, after conducting a physical attack.
This is obvious.
However, for some reason, when Jews get attacked,….jeez….some people want to leap in and explain….the nuance….of blowing stuff up. |  | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 23:08 - Mar 23 with 876 views | chantryblueboy |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 22:40 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
Did I make what point during the BLM movement, or about LGBT causes?
Please explain.
I'm not begging GB to call me an antisemite. I find false accusations of racism extremely unpleasant and completely inaccurate.
Seriously, you haven't got a clue. |
That other forms of racism exist. You seem unable to grasp that this is wrong on the basis that someone might be racially abused for wearing a burka in a village in the south of France. Would you tell victims of a homophobic hate crime that actually, Islamophobia is worse in your village? Or a victim of anti-black racism that Islamophobia is worse in your village? The answer is no | | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 23:31 - Mar 23 with 823 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 21:49 - Mar 23 by Dubtractor |
I have to say, whatever point it is that you are trying to make in this thread, you are coming across astonishingly badly. |
Here's a summary of what I've said and the point I am making:
9:16
I would say it's very important to understand (what motivated this attack). How can you possibly solve any problem without knowing the reason for it?
Attacking ambulances in the hope that a national or religious group will change its behaviour on the other side of the planet is ignorant and evil.
10:13
It's right to be trying to make sense of these terrible events.
10:55
Understanding the motivation behind these attacks is the first step in dealing with the hatred which motivates people to commit such atrocities.
Simply being outraged and lashing out at "these animals" is not conducive to de-escalating tensions when the world is a tinder box right now.
11:09
I disagree with GB's comment: "The motivation is hatred against Jews. Full stop." It's possible that the motivation is hatred against Jews, but how can we know that if we refuse to find out what the motive actually was. I believe there may be nuance here.
I've said on numerous occasions that anti-Zionism is not antisemitism. There are many Jewish scholars who say exactly the same thing. I'm not saying it was an anti-Zionist attack, I'm not saying the perpetrator of this crime isn't an antisemite, but I think we should find out the real motives for the attack otherwise we're no better than a kangaroo court. I hope we English are better than that.
11:49
I'm told there is no nuance here. It's clear the lynch mob have their pitchforks out and don't want to give the perpetrator any defence: "it's antisemitism. End of. " And it may well be the case, but I'm not going to reach that conclusion without finding out what the motives were for the attack.
That has been the gist of my position all along but because I was calling for calm before the lynching, some people then decided I supported this attack. I don't.
There are at least 4 times as many Christian Zionists in the US than there are Jewish Zionists in Israel and the diaspora. I believe these Christian Zionists: Mick Huckerbee, Linsey Graham and Pete Hegseth et al are literally trying to bring on armageddon. Approximately 80% of what I read is written by Jews, secular and religious. They are incredibly brave people. I am certainly not an antisemite but I am anti-Zionist. They are different.
I'm reluctant to spend the rest of the night going through what I have already written in this thread.
I challenge anyone to find anything antisemitic in what I have written, EVER. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 23:57 - Mar 23 with 770 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 22:40 - Mar 23 by eireblue |
It isn’t odd.
Lots of people in all walks of life try and justify what they do.
People that attack others don’t get to define their nuanced position, and which words matter, they have lost the right to claim that words matter, as soon as they decide to use violence.
Victims of attacks, get to decide which words matter.
White straight middle aged men don’t get to define Islamaphobia, they don’t get to define Homophobia, they don’t get to define misogyny.
They don’t get to mansplain to victims why their nuanced intellectual justifications are important and why their words suddenly matter, after conducting a physical attack.
This is obvious.
However, for some reason, when Jews get attacked,….jeez….some people want to leap in and explain….the nuance….of blowing stuff up. |
You write beautifully, but you talk a lot of nonsense.
Your core idea is that “Victims get to decide which words matter.”
Yes, victims’ experiences matter deeply. Their perception of harm, fear, or hatred is an essential part of understanding the impact of an offence. However, in British law, victims do not get to define legal categories or determine what is or isn’t a crime.
The rule of law requires objective, consistent, publicly known definitions.
Offences such as assault, hate crime, harassment, or terrorism have statutory definitions.
A victim’s perception can be evidence, but it is not determinative.
You say “People who attack others lose the right to nuance.”
Of course, violence is morally wrong, and perpetrators often try to justify it.
However the legal reality is that even violent offenders retain: the right to a defence, the right to explain their motives, the right to legal representation and the right to a fair trial.
British law does not strip someone of the right to nuance or explanation because they committed violence. In fact, their explanation may determine whether it was terrorism or ordinary criminality and whether it was aggravated by hate or revenge.
A fair legal system must hear the perpetrator’s account, even if morally distasteful.
There's so much more to add and you raise an important point in that it's important to listen to victims but your comments misrepresent how a fair legal system works.
You suggests victims define legal categories - they don't.
You imply perpetrators lose legal rights - they don't.
You conflate moral discourse with legal standards. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 00:34 - Mar 24 with 751 views | Camul123 |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 23:57 - Mar 23 by Cafe_Newman |
You write beautifully, but you talk a lot of nonsense.
Your core idea is that “Victims get to decide which words matter.”
Yes, victims’ experiences matter deeply. Their perception of harm, fear, or hatred is an essential part of understanding the impact of an offence. However, in British law, victims do not get to define legal categories or determine what is or isn’t a crime.
The rule of law requires objective, consistent, publicly known definitions.
Offences such as assault, hate crime, harassment, or terrorism have statutory definitions.
A victim’s perception can be evidence, but it is not determinative.
You say “People who attack others lose the right to nuance.”
Of course, violence is morally wrong, and perpetrators often try to justify it.
However the legal reality is that even violent offenders retain: the right to a defence, the right to explain their motives, the right to legal representation and the right to a fair trial.
British law does not strip someone of the right to nuance or explanation because they committed violence. In fact, their explanation may determine whether it was terrorism or ordinary criminality and whether it was aggravated by hate or revenge.
A fair legal system must hear the perpetrator’s account, even if morally distasteful.
There's so much more to add and you raise an important point in that it's important to listen to victims but your comments misrepresent how a fair legal system works.
You suggests victims define legal categories - they don't.
You imply perpetrators lose legal rights - they don't.
You conflate moral discourse with legal standards. |
That looks like AI slop.
I'm not going to check, but you could fess .... | | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 00:39 - Mar 24 with 734 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 23:08 - Mar 23 by chantryblueboy |
That other forms of racism exist. You seem unable to grasp that this is wrong on the basis that someone might be racially abused for wearing a burka in a village in the south of France. Would you tell victims of a homophobic hate crime that actually, Islamophobia is worse in your village? Or a victim of anti-black racism that Islamophobia is worse in your village? The answer is no |
Clarity is very import here so I'm going reply to what I understand and ask you nicely to re-express a couple of things so that they make sense:
"That other forms of racism exist. You seem unable to grasp that this is wrong on the basis that someone might be racially abused for wearing a burka in a village in the south of France." Please read those sentences again and see why they're not clear as they stand. Please tell me what you think I'm failing to grasp.
No I would not tell victims of a homophobic hate crime that Islamophobia is worse in my village. Nor vice versa. Nor would I say to a black person that the racism they have experienced is worse than someone who has suffered Islamophobia, or vice versa. Obviously if one of these cases involved physical violence or vandalism to their property, and the other one didn't, I might say one was worse than the other.
The point I was making was that the further your skin colour deviates from the local pink, the more rejection you are going to face here. An Ethiopian Jew would definitely face greater racism than a Serbian Muslim, but the fact is that most Muslims in France have significantly darker skin than most Jews in France. That is the main issue.
That said, there is a lot of hatred of Jews in cities like Marseille. Similarly, there is a lot of hatred of Muslims in the media, especially at election times from the sizeable far right. Rural France, like rural Britain, is far more likely to be Right on the political spectrum than progressive and immigrant-friendly. That's why the Muslims here would face wider rejection here than a European Jew. I hope that explains my original comment better. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 00:46 - Mar 24 with 713 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 00:34 - Mar 24 by Camul123 |
That looks like AI slop.
I'm not going to check, but you could fess .... |
It's about 65% AI.
If there's any content which is factually incorrect, point it out.
There was simply so much wrong with EireBlue's original comment that I didn't have the time to address every misleading and correct comment without writing an essay. [Post edited 24 Mar 6:21]
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| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 06:01 - Mar 24 with 607 views | Benters |
| “By no means am I looking at both sidesing this“…. on 17:34 - Mar 23 by Tambu |
Can you also run me through the part where those ambulances were to be replaced very shortly according to the website and now they will get the insurance money and public donations. That's a stroke of good fortune isn't it. Alls well that ends well |
Jeez what ridiculous thing to say. |  |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 06:08 - Mar 24 with 604 views | chantryblueboy |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 00:39 - Mar 24 by Cafe_Newman |
Clarity is very import here so I'm going reply to what I understand and ask you nicely to re-express a couple of things so that they make sense:
"That other forms of racism exist. You seem unable to grasp that this is wrong on the basis that someone might be racially abused for wearing a burka in a village in the south of France." Please read those sentences again and see why they're not clear as they stand. Please tell me what you think I'm failing to grasp.
No I would not tell victims of a homophobic hate crime that Islamophobia is worse in my village. Nor vice versa. Nor would I say to a black person that the racism they have experienced is worse than someone who has suffered Islamophobia, or vice versa. Obviously if one of these cases involved physical violence or vandalism to their property, and the other one didn't, I might say one was worse than the other.
The point I was making was that the further your skin colour deviates from the local pink, the more rejection you are going to face here. An Ethiopian Jew would definitely face greater racism than a Serbian Muslim, but the fact is that most Muslims in France have significantly darker skin than most Jews in France. That is the main issue.
That said, there is a lot of hatred of Jews in cities like Marseille. Similarly, there is a lot of hatred of Muslims in the media, especially at election times from the sizeable far right. Rural France, like rural Britain, is far more likely to be Right on the political spectrum than progressive and immigrant-friendly. That's why the Muslims here would face wider rejection here than a European Jew. I hope that explains my original comment better. |
It’s completely irrelevant. You are an idiot | | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 08:05 - Mar 24 with 505 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 21:44 - Mar 23 by chantryblueboy |
Did you make this same point during the BLM movement, or about LGBT causes, or is it only relevant to you when it’s Jewish people?
You’re begging Glassers to call you an anti semite - I’m happy to do it if he won’t |
She’s begging me to call her an anti semite? That’s odd as I don’t engage with her and can’t see her posts. The only people I have referred to as anti semites on this thread are the low lifes on social media such as twitter who are pushing lies, conspiracies and Whatabouttery. | |
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| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 08:07 - Mar 24 with 504 views | Sarge |
I’ve only read pages 1 and 5 of this thread and the fact there is anything other than consensus is stunning.
Destroying ambulances is evil
Targeting Jewish communities is evil
There is no further nuance or attempt to
understand the reasoning required.
Burning down an ambulance in London because Israeli and American terrorists are fighting Iranian terrorists in Iran or because Israeli terrorists are committing genocide in Gaza, probably Lebanon, and wherever else they decide to invade is still evil. And pointless.
If anyone is attempting to rationalise it I assume they’ll also attempt to rationalise attacking mosques and Muslims after yet another Islamist terrorist attack somewhere in the world?
Innocent people in whatever country are not responsible for the actions of state or non-state terrorists. End of. | | | |
| Antisemitism reared its ugly head once again this weekend on 08:21 - Mar 24 with 481 views | GlasgowBlue |
Italy and Belgium deploy troops to protect Jewish areas.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/e
How long until this becomes the norm in the UK. As it is, Jewish schoolchildren have for sometime been the only kids to require high fencing, CCTV, controlled entry, and security guards in order to attend school. | |
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