| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast 15:08 - Jun 9 with 10359 views | noggin |
and planned anti immigrant protests tonight. If true, I fear it could get nasty. This really couldn't have come at a worse time for the UK. [Post edited 9 Jun 15:13]
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 10:43 - Jun 10 with 1472 views | Benters |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 07:53 - Jun 10 by waveneyblue |
Is pushing, probing, goading and ridiculing posters who dont share the same extreme views as you a good look ?
Sorry, I really struggle with the self imposed rules you set on here. [Post edited 10 Jun 7:55]
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I mean what is there to ‘debate’ about anyway? A Lovely chap from Sudan tried to cut a dear chap from Irelands head off with a Stanley knife!
I mean there’s only so much you can ‘debate’ about that Shirley ? [Post edited 10 Jun 10:46]
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 11:26 - Jun 10 with 1384 views | Churchman |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 09:04 - Jun 10 by StokieBlue |
None of that is happening.
For about the 100th time, not all opinions are equal and the fact you think they are is the issue here. It's demonstrably untrue as I showed you previously.
Challenging things that are pushed as equivalent in a "but both sides" narrative is absolutely the right thing to do. The fact you think it isn't is the worrying thing here and once again highlights what a right state the country is in. It's a clear attempt to silence the difficult questions.
You think I have "extreme views"?
Wow.
SB [Post edited 10 Jun 9:05]
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Sorry, I disagree. All opinions are equal and everybody should be entitled to express them.
An opinion may be plain wrong, wrong in yours or my view, absurd, worthy of consideration,, ridicule, thought, discussion, view changing, an education but it should be heard and not muzzled.
To describe somebody as extreme depends on one’s own viewpoint. |  | | |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 11:35 - Jun 10 with 1365 views | Whos_blue |
In her "scrap the equality act" speech yesterday, Badenoch said this:
"modern Britain is the least racist country on Earth" and pointed to her experience as a child of living on three different continents.
She added: "It is because we are not racist, because we care so much about equality that we have overcorrected and actually brought in rules that are actually discriminatory."
Less than 12 hours later...... |  |
| "Look, I don't wanna be the same as everybody else. That's why I'm a Mod, see?" |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 11:50 - Jun 10 with 1313 views | StokieBlue |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 11:26 - Jun 10 by Churchman |
Sorry, I disagree. All opinions are equal and everybody should be entitled to express them.
An opinion may be plain wrong, wrong in yours or my view, absurd, worthy of consideration,, ridicule, thought, discussion, view changing, an education but it should be heard and not muzzled.
To describe somebody as extreme depends on one’s own viewpoint. |
Absolutely not. Not all opinions are equal and it's that false equivalence narrative that is causing problems.
You wouldn't give the opinions of a doctor and a mechanic the same equality on health issues. It's the same with everything, if it's clearly against the evidence and you push it as an equality then that is wrong. People are entitled to that opinion but it's not an equality.
Nobody has "muzzled" anyone, in fact it's exactly the opposite, many posters asked for further clarification which the poster refused to give.
SB [Post edited 10 Jun 11:51]
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| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 11:55 - Jun 10 with 1273 views | eireblue |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 11:26 - Jun 10 by Churchman |
Sorry, I disagree. All opinions are equal and everybody should be entitled to express them.
An opinion may be plain wrong, wrong in yours or my view, absurd, worthy of consideration,, ridicule, thought, discussion, view changing, an education but it should be heard and not muzzled.
To describe somebody as extreme depends on one’s own viewpoint. |
Your second paragraph is agreeing with SB.
Extreme has a perfectly understandable definition, and isn’t a function of one’s own viewpoint.
A persons view, maybe the same as 99% of a population.
So a view point expressed by 0.01% of that same population, could be extreme, and is not a function of an individual in the 99% group.
A persons in the 0.01% can’t claim everyone in the 99% group with a shared view are extreme. |  | | |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 11:57 - Jun 10 with 1248 views | lowhouseblue |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 11:50 - Jun 10 by StokieBlue |
Absolutely not. Not all opinions are equal and it's that false equivalence narrative that is causing problems.
You wouldn't give the opinions of a doctor and a mechanic the same equality on health issues. It's the same with everything, if it's clearly against the evidence and you push it as an equality then that is wrong. People are entitled to that opinion but it's not an equality.
Nobody has "muzzled" anyone, in fact it's exactly the opposite, many posters asked for further clarification which the poster refused to give.
SB [Post edited 10 Jun 11:51]
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the trouble is you always think it's you who gets to rule on what's legitimate and what's not. that's not how debate works. and in reality 'evidence' is more often selective than clear cut. and typically, 'evidence' is the start of a debate not the end of one. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 12:01 - Jun 10 with 1224 views | bluelagos |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 11:26 - Jun 10 by Churchman |
Sorry, I disagree. All opinions are equal and everybody should be entitled to express them.
An opinion may be plain wrong, wrong in yours or my view, absurd, worthy of consideration,, ridicule, thought, discussion, view changing, an education but it should be heard and not muzzled.
To describe somebody as extreme depends on one’s own viewpoint. |
"All opinions are equal..."
Nah, I tend to listen to doctors when it comes to medicine, accountants if I want tax advice, gardeners if advice on my garden.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and to be heard, but not every opinion is equal given some are much better informed than others. I find many stating "all opinions are equal" do so as they don't like their own ill informed opinions being taken to bits.
Such is life. |  |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 12:04 - Jun 10 with 1192 views | wkj |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 11:26 - Jun 10 by Churchman |
Sorry, I disagree. All opinions are equal and everybody should be entitled to express them.
An opinion may be plain wrong, wrong in yours or my view, absurd, worthy of consideration,, ridicule, thought, discussion, view changing, an education but it should be heard and not muzzled.
To describe somebody as extreme depends on one’s own viewpoint. |
I have to pick up on this line too
'All opinions are equal and everybody should be entitled to express them'
No opinion is equal, not when you factor in bias, influence, pressure etc. In a day and age where a lot of people are forming opinions based on powerful people paying top dollar to inject them into the conversation - how could that possibly equal with someone who has objectively considered their opinion?
I even question whether or not people have entitlement to express opinions in this day and age given how weaponised words have become.
I do think everyone has an equal right to form an opinion, equilibrium shifts when you consider why, when, why, where and how each opinion is shared [Post edited 10 Jun 12:05]
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 12:05 - Jun 10 with 1179 views | lowhouseblue |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 12:01 - Jun 10 by bluelagos |
"All opinions are equal..."
Nah, I tend to listen to doctors when it comes to medicine, accountants if I want tax advice, gardeners if advice on my garden.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and to be heard, but not every opinion is equal given some are much better informed than others. I find many stating "all opinions are equal" do so as they don't like their own ill informed opinions being taken to bits.
Such is life. |
but, do you see any differences between politics and medicine, or accountancy, or horticulture? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 12:39 - Jun 10 with 1094 views | eireblue |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 12:05 - Jun 10 by lowhouseblue |
but, do you see any differences between politics and medicine, or accountancy, or horticulture? |
They are all the same.
If you are trying to move from a current state, to a future state, you need expertise to do that.
Unless you are of the Micheal Gove school of having had enough of experts. | | | |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 12:54 - Jun 10 with 1040 views | lowhouseblue |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 12:39 - Jun 10 by eireblue |
They are all the same.
If you are trying to move from a current state, to a future state, you need expertise to do that.
Unless you are of the Micheal Gove school of having had enough of experts. |
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 13:11 - Jun 10 with 997 views | eireblue |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 12:54 - Jun 10 by lowhouseblue |
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You agree with me again, nice. | | | |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 13:20 - Jun 10 with 970 views | chicoazul |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 11:50 - Jun 10 by StokieBlue |
Absolutely not. Not all opinions are equal and it's that false equivalence narrative that is causing problems.
You wouldn't give the opinions of a doctor and a mechanic the same equality on health issues. It's the same with everything, if it's clearly against the evidence and you push it as an equality then that is wrong. People are entitled to that opinion but it's not an equality.
Nobody has "muzzled" anyone, in fact it's exactly the opposite, many posters asked for further clarification which the poster refused to give.
SB [Post edited 10 Jun 11:51]
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You’re confused. All opinions are equal. As so often you conflate facts with truth. Your analogy about a Dr and a mechanic is specious as your argument relies on comparison of expertise not opinion. A Dr and a Mechanic can have the same opinions about anything and everything, that is a fact, it doesn’t mean their opinions are true. |  |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 13:31 - Jun 10 with 920 views | chicoazul |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 12:01 - Jun 10 by bluelagos |
"All opinions are equal..."
Nah, I tend to listen to doctors when it comes to medicine, accountants if I want tax advice, gardeners if advice on my garden.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion and to be heard, but not every opinion is equal given some are much better informed than others. I find many stating "all opinions are equal" do so as they don't like their own ill informed opinions being taken to bits.
Such is life. |
But you don’t go to an accountant for their opinion. You go for their advice and expertise about your tax affairs.
Opinions are all equally valid everywhere; they’re just opinions. The trouble is some people hate to think their opinion as an informed erudite twtder is somehow empirically worth the same as Big Dave down the Dog and Duck. But it is; it’s just an opinion. You’ll take it or leave it. | |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 13:42 - Jun 10 with 856 views | Kievthegreat |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 13:20 - Jun 10 by chicoazul |
You’re confused. All opinions are equal. As so often you conflate facts with truth. Your analogy about a Dr and a mechanic is specious as your argument relies on comparison of expertise not opinion. A Dr and a Mechanic can have the same opinions about anything and everything, that is a fact, it doesn’t mean their opinions are true. |
If I go to a specialist, I go for their expert opinion, precisely because it is more valuable than a layperson's.
If my mechanic tells me he thinks my head gasket is leaking, it's his opinion based on the available information and diagnostics. Similarly if I told my mechanic before I dropped off the car that I think it's the head gasket, him having the same opinion doesn't make them equal still. His is backed by far greater knowledge, expertise and experience. I wouldn't have bought all the parts and started fixing it on just my opinion. |  | | |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 13:48 - Jun 10 with 835 views | eireblue |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 13:31 - Jun 10 by chicoazul |
But you don’t go to an accountant for their opinion. You go for their advice and expertise about your tax affairs.
Opinions are all equally valid everywhere; they’re just opinions. The trouble is some people hate to think their opinion as an informed erudite twtder is somehow empirically worth the same as Big Dave down the Dog and Duck. But it is; it’s just an opinion. You’ll take it or leave it. |
So would give equal consideration to Big Dave’s opinion on a savings strategy for retirement, as your accountant.
You would give equal consideration to you accountants opinion about the best bitter on tap, and not Big Dave.
Assuming of course, big Dave knows nothing about your finances, and you accountant hasn’t visited the pub, and doesn’t drink beer.
Or maybe you are arguing that the English language should have a better terms for doxa and episteme. | | | |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:01 - Jun 10 with 768 views | chicoazul |
Lads I’m reading some of your responses and I’m wondering if I’ve not gone completely insane. Don’t words have definitions anymore? Do we understand the difference between an opinion and knowledge? | |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:07 - Jun 10 with 733 views | noggin |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 09:34 - Jun 10 by bluejacko |
Let’s just wait for the actual reports today,not condoning the violence that did obviously occur but it was in very small areas and the majority of protests were peaceful.
Again no excuses but London Derry is no stranger to the odd riot by republicans,so it’s not just one side.
The fact that both communities were on the streets should indeed start to raise questions and worry the authorities. [Post edited 10 Jun 10:08]
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"the majority of protests were peaceful."
As are the vast majority of immigrants. | |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:14 - Jun 10 with 708 views | eireblue |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:01 - Jun 10 by chicoazul |
Lads I’m reading some of your responses and I’m wondering if I’ve not gone completely insane. Don’t words have definitions anymore? Do we understand the difference between an opinion and knowledge? |
A definition, from Cambridge. The last two clauses maybe helpful.
opinion
noun
UK /əˈpɪn.jən/ US /əˈpɪn.jən/
B1 [ C ]
a thought or belief about something or someone:
opinion about What's your opinion about the matter?
opinion on I would like to get your opinion on the new schedule.
have an opinion People tend to have strong opinions on capital punishment.
express an opinion He didn't express an opinion on the matter.
give an opinion She always gave me her opinion on my work whether I asked for it or not.
in your opinion Who, in your opinion, (= who do you think) is the best soccer player in the world today?
of the opinion that He's very much of the opinion that alternative medicine is a waste of time.
B2 [ U ]
the thoughts or beliefs that a group of people have:
public opinion Eventually, the government will have to take notice of public opinion.
There is a diverse range of opinion on the issue.
difference of opinion There was a difference of opinion as to the desirability of the project.
opinion is divided Opinion is divided as to whether the treatment actually works.
a matter of opinion Both performances were excellent, it's simply a matter of opinion as to whose was better.
B1 [ C ]
a judgment about someone or something:
opinion of Her opinion of Adam changed after he was so helpful at the wedding.
has a good opinion of She has a good opinion of his abilities (= thinks he is good).
have a high opinion of My mother had a very high opinion of Dickens as a novelist.
have a low opinion of I have a pretty low opinion of my sister's boyfriend (= I do not like or approve of him).
have a bad opinion of I have a pretty bad opinion of newspaper reporters.
have a poor opinion of She had a poor opinion of Joseph's acting skills.
high opinion of He has a very high opinion of himself (= thinks he is very skilled/clever in a way that is annoying).
B1 [ C ]
a judgment made by an expert:
second opinion My doctor has referred me to a specialist for a second opinion on the results of my blood test. | | | |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:16 - Jun 10 with 690 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 13:48 - Jun 10 by eireblue |
So would give equal consideration to Big Dave’s opinion on a savings strategy for retirement, as your accountant.
You would give equal consideration to you accountants opinion about the best bitter on tap, and not Big Dave.
Assuming of course, big Dave knows nothing about your finances, and you accountant hasn’t visited the pub, and doesn’t drink beer.
Or maybe you are arguing that the English language should have a better terms for doxa and episteme. |
The way I see it there is a difference between opinion and expert opinion.
So if we are all giving our opinions on how Ipswich should set up their team next season all opinions are equal. Unless one pf us has their FIFA 'A' license. In that case their opinion would hold more weight than others. But the others would still have the right to hold and put forward their opinion. And all of us are free to challenge that opinion.
In most of the debates on TWTD, there are very few subjects where 'expert' opinion is put forward. |  |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:17 - Jun 10 with 689 views | bluelagos |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:14 - Jun 10 by eireblue |
A definition, from Cambridge. The last two clauses maybe helpful.
opinion
noun
UK /əˈpɪn.jən/ US /əˈpɪn.jən/
B1 [ C ]
a thought or belief about something or someone:
opinion about What's your opinion about the matter?
opinion on I would like to get your opinion on the new schedule.
have an opinion People tend to have strong opinions on capital punishment.
express an opinion He didn't express an opinion on the matter.
give an opinion She always gave me her opinion on my work whether I asked for it or not.
in your opinion Who, in your opinion, (= who do you think) is the best soccer player in the world today?
of the opinion that He's very much of the opinion that alternative medicine is a waste of time.
B2 [ U ]
the thoughts or beliefs that a group of people have:
public opinion Eventually, the government will have to take notice of public opinion.
There is a diverse range of opinion on the issue.
difference of opinion There was a difference of opinion as to the desirability of the project.
opinion is divided Opinion is divided as to whether the treatment actually works.
a matter of opinion Both performances were excellent, it's simply a matter of opinion as to whose was better.
B1 [ C ]
a judgment about someone or something:
opinion of Her opinion of Adam changed after he was so helpful at the wedding.
has a good opinion of She has a good opinion of his abilities (= thinks he is good).
have a high opinion of My mother had a very high opinion of Dickens as a novelist.
have a low opinion of I have a pretty low opinion of my sister's boyfriend (= I do not like or approve of him).
have a bad opinion of I have a pretty bad opinion of newspaper reporters.
have a poor opinion of She had a poor opinion of Joseph's acting skills.
high opinion of He has a very high opinion of himself (= thinks he is very skilled/clever in a way that is annoying).
B1 [ C ]
a judgment made by an expert:
second opinion My doctor has referred me to a specialist for a second opinion on the results of my blood test. |
Ouch | |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:22 - Jun 10 with 655 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 11:26 - Jun 10 by Churchman |
Sorry, I disagree. All opinions are equal and everybody should be entitled to express them.
An opinion may be plain wrong, wrong in yours or my view, absurd, worthy of consideration,, ridicule, thought, discussion, view changing, an education but it should be heard and not muzzled.
To describe somebody as extreme depends on one’s own viewpoint. |
People are free to express their opinions. What they’re not free from are the consequences (from being asked to justify them on a message board all the way through to having their collars felt if they break laws). |  |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:23 - Jun 10 with 650 views | chicoazul |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:14 - Jun 10 by eireblue |
A definition, from Cambridge. The last two clauses maybe helpful.
opinion
noun
UK /əˈpɪn.jən/ US /əˈpɪn.jən/
B1 [ C ]
a thought or belief about something or someone:
opinion about What's your opinion about the matter?
opinion on I would like to get your opinion on the new schedule.
have an opinion People tend to have strong opinions on capital punishment.
express an opinion He didn't express an opinion on the matter.
give an opinion She always gave me her opinion on my work whether I asked for it or not.
in your opinion Who, in your opinion, (= who do you think) is the best soccer player in the world today?
of the opinion that He's very much of the opinion that alternative medicine is a waste of time.
B2 [ U ]
the thoughts or beliefs that a group of people have:
public opinion Eventually, the government will have to take notice of public opinion.
There is a diverse range of opinion on the issue.
difference of opinion There was a difference of opinion as to the desirability of the project.
opinion is divided Opinion is divided as to whether the treatment actually works.
a matter of opinion Both performances were excellent, it's simply a matter of opinion as to whose was better.
B1 [ C ]
a judgment about someone or something:
opinion of Her opinion of Adam changed after he was so helpful at the wedding.
has a good opinion of She has a good opinion of his abilities (= thinks he is good).
have a high opinion of My mother had a very high opinion of Dickens as a novelist.
have a low opinion of I have a pretty low opinion of my sister's boyfriend (= I do not like or approve of him).
have a bad opinion of I have a pretty bad opinion of newspaper reporters.
have a poor opinion of She had a poor opinion of Joseph's acting skills.
high opinion of He has a very high opinion of himself (= thinks he is very skilled/clever in a way that is annoying).
B1 [ C ]
a judgment made by an expert:
second opinion My doctor has referred me to a specialist for a second opinion on the results of my blood test. |
There are literally no judgements made by experts in here. My god. This entire argument is exhausting and deranged but thinking about it I wonder if it’s because some people think their opinions count more than others, hence opinions cannot be inherently worthless as that would mean their opinions are worthless. | |
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| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:38 - Jun 10 with 580 views | eireblue |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:16 - Jun 10 by GlasgowBlue |
The way I see it there is a difference between opinion and expert opinion.
So if we are all giving our opinions on how Ipswich should set up their team next season all opinions are equal. Unless one pf us has their FIFA 'A' license. In that case their opinion would hold more weight than others. But the others would still have the right to hold and put forward their opinion. And all of us are free to challenge that opinion.
In most of the debates on TWTD, there are very few subjects where 'expert' opinion is put forward. |
Yep, totally agree, there are degrees between opinion and expert opinion.
People can talk sh1te about anything they like, say Alan Shearer on KMK tactics, he really hasn’t got a clue. 
And it is that degree of skepticism vs democracy vs populist rhetoric that has been debated since, well since democracy was a thing.
People can have bad opinions. | | | |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:52 - Jun 10 with 535 views | eireblue |
| Seeing reports of a knife attack in Belfast on 14:23 - Jun 10 by chicoazul |
There are literally no judgements made by experts in here. My god. This entire argument is exhausting and deranged but thinking about it I wonder if it’s because some people think their opinions count more than others, hence opinions cannot be inherently worthless as that would mean their opinions are worthless. |
Hey, you mentioned a definition……not a summation of people on here.
You have hardly posted, jeez, and already you are exhausted.
There are lots of people on here with varying levels of knowledge and expertise. We have gardeners, civil servants, ex-politicians, planning officers, financial advisers, and even performance poets.
I still wouldn’t ask the latter on that list about topics related to the first on that list.
I have no problem people telling me my opinions on football are inherently worthless, cause they are. Except on Alan Shearer. | | | |
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